WHO IS JESUS? ??????????

On Sep 7, 5:55 pm, ***@. wrote:

snip

Goober if you believe God does not exist then you have whatever amount of
faith

Great. Another fucking moron trying to shift the burden of proof.
Listen up, genius..just because whether or not gods exist is important
to *you*-it doesn't mean it's important to anyone else.

If you're a theist, you're claiming some crazy shit. And there's no
"faith" involved when an atheist tells you he doesn't believe you.
Learn it, live it, love it.

-Panama Floyd, Atlanta.
aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA!
"..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."
-Mark Twain

Religious societies are *less* moral than secular ones:
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html

George Plimpton

2011-09-07 19:14:42 UTC

Post by d***@.
Goober if you believe God does not exist then you have whatever amount of
faith

Great. Another fucking moron trying to shift the burden of proof.
Listen up, genius..just because whether or not gods exist is important
to *you*-it doesn't mean it's important to anyone else.

Fuckwit David Harrison ('***@.') is a true-believing Southern Baptist who
develops a weird, irrational angle for everything he tries to discuss.
He keeps blabbering irrationally about atheists having "faith" that god
doesn't exist, but he always says the same thing without ever really
showing he understands what the other people are saying.

panamfloyd@hotmail.com rade

2011-09-07 19:31:20 UTC

Goober if you believe God does not exist then you have whatever amount of
faith

Great. Another fucking moron trying to shift the burden of proof.
Listen up, genius..just because whether or not gods exist is important
to *you*-it doesn't mean it's important to anyone else.

develops a weird, irrational angle for everything he tries to discuss.
He keeps blabbering irrationally about atheists having "faith" that god
doesn't exist, but he always says the same thing without ever really
showing he understands what the other people are saying.

I grew up SouBap. Trust me..if he's anything like the people I met
when I was a kid, he really *doesn't* understand what other people
say. It's astonishing just how out of touch with reality they can be.
I used to wonder how they could hold a steady job-until I realized
they were all employed by other Baptist freaks.

-PF, Atl.
#2015/KoBAAWA!

d***@.

2011-09-08 16:34:06 UTC

Goober if you believe God does not exist then you have whatever amount of
faith

Great. Another fucking moron trying to shift the burden of proof.
Listen up, genius..just because whether or not gods exist is important
to *you*-it doesn't mean it's important to anyone else.

I agree. But you seem in a similar position from my pov. To me it's no more
astonishing for someone to believe the Earth is only 12K~ years old, than it is
to think gods could not exist.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
I used to wonder how they could hold a steady job-until I realized
they were all employed by other Baptist freaks.

The first time one of them told me 'the Earth is only 12 thousand years old
you know' I was astonished. The guy was the head librarian in a big church,
telling shit like that to people and considering it to be education. When I
asked him what he thought about carbon dating and fossils etc he said God just
makes it "look" like that's how things happened. To me that is insanity. If God
exists it seems pretty obvious that he made use of the evolutionary method of
creation which took billions of years. Unless he came along at some point later
in the game after it had started to cool off pretty well.... Yeah yeah, you're
lost immediately thinking about stuff like that. To me both things are similar.
Yours is a great restriction in thinking which is a mistake, and theirs' is a
great mistake in thinking.

Speaking of mistakes, and believing incorrect things: Goo has already lied
to you several times. It's what he does. If I tell you something wrong it's a
mistake, but Goo lies pretty consistently and as I said he has already lied to
you more than once. His name is not Georpe Plimpton, and I'm not a Southern
Baptist. I also don't have a true belief either way about whether or not God
exists, though things I've experienced encourage me to believe he does. I also
believe Goo lied when he said I don't understand what the other person is saying
because I feel that I do understand what they're trying to get me to believe,
sometimes regardless of what they actually say. Goo lies a lot, so that applies
to him a lot.
In your case I believe you're saying that not believing in God is not a type
of faith, it's just not believing. IF that's all you're saying then you're
right, BUT, then you go on to criticize people for believing in God. There you
let it be known that you don't just not have a belief, but you do believe God
does not exist. So I do understand what you want me to believe, and also the way
it actually is. The final question now becomes: do you honestly not understand
your position yourself?

panamfloyd@hotmail.com rade

2011-09-12 02:19:48 UTC

Post by d***@.
Goober if you believe God does not exist then you have whatever amount of
faith

Great. Another fucking moron trying to shift the burden of proof.
Listen up, genius..just because whether or not gods exist is important
to *you*-it doesn't mean it's important to anyone else.

I agree. But you seem in a similar position from my pov. To me it's no more
astonishing for someone to believe the Earth is only 12K~ years old, than it is
to think gods could not exist.

Please see my reply to your other post regarding your inability to
imagine that there are people who don't *care* if gods exist.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/1f68bf791780eae7

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
I used to wonder how they could hold a steady job-until I realized
they were all employed by other Baptist freaks.

Agreed.

Post by d***@.
If God
exists it seems pretty obvious that he made use of the evolutionary method of
creation which took billions of years.

Or perhaps gods do not exist. Occam's Razor & such.

Post by d***@.
Unless he came along at some point later
in the game after it had started to cool off pretty well.... Yeah yeah, you're
lost immediately thinking about stuff like that.

Well, not accepting YEC is a step in the right direction, but if you
can't understand that people exist who DO NOT CARE if gods exist,
you're going to continue to make the false equation between people who
accept modern biology & geology, and people who do not believe in
gods.

Post by d***@.
To me both things are similar.

Stinks to be you. Only empathy I have for ya as that I once felt the
same thing..

..when I was TWELVE YEARS OLD! I grew up. If all our arguments are
going to begin with, "To me...", than my own would be, "To me, you
need to grow the fuck up."

Fortunately, personal anecdotes and opinions are not evidence-either
mine about your age, or *yours* about my atheism.

Post by d***@.
Yours is a great restriction in thinking which is a mistake,

So I'm `restricting my thinking' by discarding the possibility of the
existence of gods? I've been told by the same Cretinist (that's
atheist language for "creationists") crowd with which *you've* seemed
to have so much trouble with as well that I'm `restricting my
thinking' by discarding their madness. You really can't see that
they're the same? Oh well..the old atheist adage holds true
again..it's impossible to "reason" a person out of an irrational
belief they hold for emotional purposes.

Post by d***@.
and theirs' is a
great mistake in thinking.
Speaking of mistakes, and believing incorrect things: Goo has already lied
to you several times. It's what he does.

Uh, I had hardly heard of the guy until you decided to add alt.atheism
to the discussion groups.

Post by d***@.
If I tell you something wrong it's a
mistake, but Goo lies pretty consistently and as I said he has already lied to
you more than once. His name is not Georpe Plimpton,

Oh, I know. George Plimpton was an American writer. He made his way
into the public eye by writing about what it would be like if an
"average guy" attempted to participate in professional sports.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Plimpton

If you're a fan of US-style football, go get "Paper Lion". You'll
enjoy it.

Post by d***@.
and I'm not a Southern
Baptist.

If you're still a theist..pray to whatever the fuck passes for "god"
this week-with a truckload of thanks.

Post by d***@.
I also don't have a true belief either way about whether or not God
exists, though things I've experienced encourage me to believe he does. I also
believe Goo lied when he said I don't understand what the other person is saying
because I feel that I do understand what they're trying to get me to believe,
sometimes regardless of what they actually say. Goo lies a lot, so that applies
to him a lot.

Irrelevant. Come to think of it, I was incorrect with my comment
above. I *have* seen that guy before..but can't recall whether he's a
theist or not. Which is also irrelevant, because whatever he is, he
hasn't posted in alt.atheism enough for me to be able to tell what
side of the table he sits.

Post by d***@.
In your case I believe you're saying that not believing in God is not a type
of faith, it's just not believing. IF that's all you're saying then you're
right, BUT, then you go on to criticize people for believing in God.

Because people who believe in gods damage modern societies.

http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html
http://www.epjournal.net/filestore/EP07398441_c.pdf

If rational, scientific data doesn't get yer mojo working, just google
"muslim rape Europe", and there's plenty of emotional reason to
justify criticizing theism.

Post by d***@.
There you
let it be known that you don't just not have a belief, but you do believe God
does not exist.

Again, I DO NOT CARE. There is no evidence gods exist. There is
increasing evidence that gods are not *required* for existence.

Post by d***@.
So I do understand what you want me to believe,

I don't want you to "believe" anything. You think gods exist? Fine.
Just keep that shit away from my kids and the laws governing my
society. Go crazy! Speak in tongues, handle snakes, rattle chicken
bones, genuflect to icons, or whatever the fuck you people do. The
only "private" theistic behavior that should be illegal would be
mutilation of children (IIRC, Jewish & Muslim people call it
"circumcision"), and the denial of medical treatment of sick children
(again, IIRC, Christian Science, Jehova's Witnesses, Amish,
Mennonites, and a bunch of others). Oh, to that, add the Muslim hatred
of women. Rape & slavery of women shouldn't be legal either.

Post by d***@.
and also the way
it actually is. The final question now becomes: do you honestly not understand
your position yourself?

The way you've phrased that question is evidence that you don't
understand a fucking thing I've said.

To someone who is only concerned with the damage done to society by
people who believe in gods, your question is ridiculous. To me, the
only "final question" I'd ever ask would be "Will I survive the
surgery?!?" shortly before I did not. As long as I live, I'll have
plenty of questions.

But none of them will be about something as irrelevant to modern life
as the existence of gods.

-Panama Floyd, Atlanta.
aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA!
"..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."
-Mark Twain

d***@.

2011-09-13 19:56:10 UTC

Post by d***@.
Goober if you believe God does not exist then you have whatever amount of
faith

Great. Another fucking moron trying to shift the burden of proof.
Listen up, genius..just because whether or not gods exist is important
to *you*-it doesn't mean it's important to anyone else.

I agree. But you seem in a similar position from my pov. To me it's no more
astonishing for someone to believe the Earth is only 12K~ years old, than it is
to think gods could not exist.

Please see my reply to your other post regarding your inability to
imagine that there are people who don't *care* if gods exist.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/1f68bf791780eae7

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
I used to wonder how they could hold a steady job-until I realized
they were all employed by other Baptist freaks.

Agreed.

Post by d***@.
If God
exists it seems pretty obvious that he made use of the evolutionary method of
creation which took billions of years.

Or perhaps gods do not exist.

That's one of countless possibilities. I have no reason to put faith in that
being the correct one. Neither does anyone else btw, though many people appear
to do so none the less.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
Occam's Razor & such.

That's meaningless in regards to this topic.

Post by d***@.
Unless he came along at some point later
in the game after it had started to cool off pretty well.... Yeah yeah, you're
lost immediately thinking about stuff like that.

Some people can't consider the possibility of gods' existence in a realistic
way and other people can. Many people who do consider the possibility of God's
existence don't do it in a realistic way imo. No strong atheists do, or are even
capable of doing so imo or they would instead of clinging to the possibility
they cling to.

Post by d***@.
To me both things are similar.

Stinks to be you. Only empathy I have for ya as that I once felt the
same thing..

What did you feel that you think might be "the same thing"?

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
..when I was TWELVE YEARS OLD! I grew up. If all our arguments are
going to begin with, "To me...", than my own would be, "To me, you
need to grow the fuck up."

And to me you never did. You could never consider the possibility of God's
existence in a realistic way, but you are STILL trapped thinking about it the
same way you did as a child. My thinking grew and matured but yours has remained
as it did when you were a child. If instead it had matured and you had learned
to consider the possibility in a realistic way, then that's what you would still
be doing because you would have LEARNED it and advanced. Instead you're still
stuck thinking about it as you did when you were a child and you can not
advance. That's not just "to me" either. That's the way it is, and it's possible
that you're mentally unable to overcome it.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
Fortunately, personal anecdotes and opinions are not evidence-either
mine about your age, or *yours* about my atheism.

Post by d***@.
Yours is a great restriction in thinking which is a mistake,

So I'm `restricting my thinking' by discarding the possibility of the
existence of gods?

As much as it's possible to in that regard, yes. You are in the group of
most restricted thinking people on the planet. Congratulations I guess. Since
that's what you appear to want you should be proud of the fact, though in
reality you're probably ashamed to even admit it much less be proud.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
I've been told by the same Cretinist (that's
atheist language for "creationists") crowd with which *you've* seemed
to have so much trouble with as well that I'm `restricting my
thinking' by discarding their madness. You really can't see that
they're the same?

You ARE among the most restricted thinking people on Earth. That much is
obviously true, since there's no more restricted way of thinking than yours is.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
Oh well..the old atheist adage holds true
again..it's impossible to "reason" a person out of an irrational
belief they hold for emotional purposes.

Post by d***@.
and theirs' is a
great mistake in thinking.
Speaking of mistakes, and believing incorrect things: Goo has already lied
to you several times. It's what he does.

Uh, I had hardly heard of the guy until you decided to add alt.atheism
to the discussion groups.

Post by d***@.
If I tell you something wrong it's a
mistake, but Goo lies pretty consistently and as I said he has already lied to
you more than once. His name is not Georpe Plimpton,

Oh, I know. George Plimpton was an American writer. He made his way
into the public eye by writing about what it would be like if an
"average guy" attempted to participate in professional sports.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Plimpton
If you're a fan of US-style football, go get "Paper Lion". You'll
enjoy it.

Post by d***@.
and I'm not a Southern
Baptist.

If you're still a theist..pray to whatever the fuck passes for "god"
this week-with a truckload of thanks.

The point is that Goo lied to you. I warn people about that, and then they
take it from there. Some people want to believe Goo's lies, and some even join
in and help him. Others hate his lies, and point them out as I do. I point out
when he lies to people as I did you, and see how you respond to the fact.

Irrelevant.

Not at all. But by saying that you suggest that you are VERY comfortable
with lies and no doubt other forms of dishonesties.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
Come to think of it, I was incorrect with my comment
above. I *have* seen that guy before..but can't recall whether he's a
theist or not. Which is also irrelevant, because whatever he is, he
hasn't posted in alt.atheism enough for me to be able to tell what
side of the table he sits.

You may have encountered him before and not known it. We began calling him
Goo in large part because he has dishonestly posted as so many "different"
people that a name needed to be used to identify the individual regardless of
who he is dishonestly pretending to be at the time. Some say his real name is
Jon, but others say no and we don't know for sure. If you remember encountering
any of the following, they are all different characters Goo has pretended to be
over the years:

Jonathan Ball
Citizen
Benfez
Wilson Woods
Radical Moderate
Bingo
Edward
George
Bill
Fred
Mystery Poster
Merlin the dog
Bob the dog
***@onairos.com
elvira
Dieter
"Dieter ***@deutsche_telekom.de"
<***@yahoo.com>
Abner Hale
Roger Whitaker
Fucktard
Apoo
Ted Bell
***@yahoo.com
Jay Santos
***@chicago.not
Rudy Canoza
Trappist
***@yahoo.com
Leif Erikson
S. Maizlich
SlipperySlope
Eden
Sylvia Stevens
chico chupacabra
S. Maizlich
T. Howard Pines, Jr.
George Plimpton
Chrissy Degeer
Mauricio Rodriguez, Nihada Tutic and Tim Goss
Pete Crayne, Dare Adelekan, Cathy Demkiw, and about 16 others

Because people who believe in gods damage modern societies.

So do people who disbelieve, so you have no argument there. So far you don't
have any argument at all, but I'll let you know if you produce one.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html
http://www.epjournal.net/filestore/EP07398441_c.pdf
If rational, scientific data doesn't get yer mojo working, just google
"muslim rape Europe", and there's plenty of emotional reason to
justify criticizing theism.

Not all of it. There's no reason to even try, so why do you try?

Post by d***@.
There you
let it be known that you don't just not have a belief, but you do believe God
does not exist.

Again, I DO NOT CARE.

It doesn't really matter if you care or not, that's still the way it is.
LOL...what if you did care? How would it be any different to me?

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
There is no evidence gods exist. There is
increasing evidence that gods are not *required* for existence.

We already know that. Duh. Again, it's meaningless. It's meaningless whether
or not there are bad theists, whether you care or not, and that gods are not
required for existence. Since gods would have to come about somehow, it seems
pretty obvious life could and did develop without the help of gods even if the
majority of people think it could be different somehow.

Post by d***@.
So I do understand what you want me to believe,

I don't want you to "believe" anything.

You want me to believe your own faith is superior to that of all others, and
I feel certain you want me to consider your faith to be "knowledge" and you may
even believe it is yourself, though I'm well aware that it's not.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
You think gods exist? Fine.
Just keep that shit away from my kids and the laws governing my
society. Go crazy! Speak in tongues, handle snakes, rattle chicken
bones, genuflect to icons, or whatever the fuck you people do. The
only "private" theistic behavior that should be illegal would be
mutilation of children (IIRC, Jewish & Muslim people call it
"circumcision"), and the denial of medical treatment of sick children
(again, IIRC, Christian Science, Jehova's Witnesses, Amish,
Mennonites, and a bunch of others). Oh, to that, add the Muslim hatred
of women. Rape & slavery of women shouldn't be legal either.

Post by d***@.
and also the way
it actually is. The final question now becomes: do you honestly not understand
your position yourself?

The way you've phrased that question is evidence that you don't
understand a fucking thing I've said.
To someone who is only concerned with the damage done to society by
people who believe in gods, your question is ridiculous. To me, the
only "final question" I'd ever ask would be "Will I survive the
surgery?!?" shortly before I did not. As long as I live, I'll have
plenty of questions.
But none of them will be about something as irrelevant to modern life
as the existence of gods.

You don't know whether it's relevant or not. You just guess about it like
everyone else does, unless of course God does exist and gives some people more
than just a guess to go on. Some people could know God exists if he does, but no
one could know he doesn't exist even if he does not.

panamfloyd@hotmail.com rade

2011-09-13 18:14:01 UTC

Goober if you believe God does not exist then you have whatever amount of
faith

Great. Another fucking moron trying to shift the burden of proof.
Listen up, genius..just because whether or not gods exist is important
to *you*-it doesn't mean it's important to anyone else.

I agree. But you seem in a similar position from my pov. To me it's no more
astonishing for someone to believe the Earth is only 12K~ years old, than it is
to think gods could not exist.

Please see my reply to your other post regarding your inability to
imagine that there are people who don't *care* if gods exist.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/1f68bf791780eae7

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
I used to wonder how they could hold a steady job-until I realized
they were all employed by other Baptist freaks.

Agreed.

If God
exists it seems pretty obvious that he made use of the evolutionary method of
creation which took billions of years.

Or perhaps gods do not exist.

That's one of countless possibilities. I have no reason to put faith in that
being the correct one. Neither does anyone else btw, though many people appear
to do so none the less.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
Occam's Razor & such.

That's meaningless in regards to this topic.

What, just because the discussion is about gods? Saying such a thing
smacks of special pleading to me.

As does the rest of your post, rendering it irrelevant.

snip

-Panama Floyd, Atlanta.
aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA!
"..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."
-Mark Twain

Religious societies are *less* moral than secular ones:
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html

d***@.

2011-09-15 22:37:17 UTC

Goober if you believe God does not exist then you have whatever amount of
faith

Great. Another fucking moron trying to shift the burden of proof.
Listen up, genius..just because whether or not gods exist is important
to *you*-it doesn't mean it's important to anyone else.

I agree. But you seem in a similar position from my pov. To me it's no more
astonishing for someone to believe the Earth is only 12K~ years old, than it is
to think gods could not exist.

Please see my reply to your other post regarding your inability to
imagine that there are people who don't *care* if gods exist.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/1f68bf791780eae7

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
I used to wonder how they could hold a steady job-until I realized
they were all employed by other Baptist freaks.

Agreed.

If God
exists it seems pretty obvious that he made use of the evolutionary method of
creation which took billions of years.

Or perhaps gods do not exist.

That's one of countless possibilities. I have no reason to put faith in that
being the correct one. Neither does anyone else btw, though many people appear
to do so none the less.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
Occam's Razor & such.

That's meaningless in regards to this topic.

What, just because the discussion is about gods?

Because the possibility that gods don't exist is meaningless when
considering the possibility that they do. If you could consider it in a
realistic way instead of only in a childlike way you would understand that.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
Saying such a thing
smacks of special pleading to me.

What it does is draw attention to the fact that what you put your own faith
in is in no way superior to any other belief, though you want it to be the only
thing people consider because it's all YOU can consider.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
As does the rest of your post, rendering it irrelevant.

The things I point out to you cause cognitive dissonance in your brain
because though they are facts, they're facts you don't like because they work
against what you WANT to believe. For example you wanted to believe that your
"thoughts" regarding God have matured, but when I pointed out that they have not
you couldn't help but know I was correct even though it's the opposite of what
you want to believe. If you could get your thoughts about the possibility to
mature to an at least somewhat realistic level, then they would have matured but
it would also change the way you think entirely. Similarly if an eliminationist
could learn to appreciate the lives of any livestock animals they would advance
to being an animal welfare supporter instead of an eliminationist, but again it
would change the way they thought entirely.

p***@hotmail.com

2011-09-16 03:16:27 UTC

Post by d***@.
Goober if you believe God does not exist then you have whatever amount of
faith

Great. Another fucking moron trying to shift the burden of proof.
Listen up, genius..just because whether or not gods exist is important
to *you*-it doesn't mean it's important to anyone else.

I agree. But you seem in a similar position from my pov. To me it's no more
astonishing for someone to believe the Earth is only 12K~ years old, than it is
to think gods could not exist.

Please see my reply to your other post regarding your inability to
imagine that there are people who don't *care* if gods exist.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/1f68bf791780eae7

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
I used to wonder how they could hold a steady job-until I realized
they were all employed by other Baptist freaks.

Agreed.

Post by d***@.
If God
exists it seems pretty obvious that he made use of the evolutionary method of
creation which took billions of years.

Or perhaps gods do not exist.

That's one of countless possibilities. I have no reason to put faith in that
being the correct one. Neither does anyone else btw, though many people appear
to do so none the less.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
Occam's Razor & such.

That's meaningless in regards to this topic.

What, just because the discussion is about gods?

Because the possibility that gods don't exist is meaningless when
considering the possibility that they do.

Only to the theist attempting to make an exception to logic for their
insipid fantasies. As I said.."special pleading".

If you could consider it in a
realistic way

Earth to D..the "realistic way" is that since there is so little
evidence for the existence of such creatures, the "question" should be
compared to similar concerns about the existence of the thousands of
other mythological creatures human fantasy has created.

Again, it's not *my* fault that *you* still consider your fantasies
worthy of serious discussion. And to someone who does not accept your
"special pleading", there's no difference between your insistence that
the existence of gods is an "important" issue.

There's a reason so many atheists make the comparison between
discarding your god/s, and discarding Santa or the Tooth Fairy. It's
because we're trying to get it through your thick heads that to
us..there honestly is *no* difference.

Your continued attempts to berate me simply because I do not share
your level of concern about the issue is ridiculous.

Your god/s may be important to you..whether or not god/s exist may be
important to you..but they are not important to me.

The only reason I discuss such nonsense in the first place is because
I think religious nonsense is harmful to a healthy society..and that
pointing out such flaws in theistic (alleged) thinking is a way to
insure there will be fewer theists in the future.

I'm snipping the rest of your post, because once again...it's based
upon (at the least) a complete misunderstanding of my argument, or (at
the most) a completely fallacious claim.

-Panama Floyd, Atlanta.
aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA!
"..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."
-Mark Twain

Religious societies are *less* moral than secular ones:
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html

instead of only in a childlike way you would understand that.

George Plimpton

2011-09-16 03:36:11 UTC

Post by d***@.
Goober if you believe God does not exist then you have whatever amount of
faith

Great. Another fucking moron trying to shift the burden of proof.
Listen up, genius..just because whether or not gods exist is important
to *you*-it doesn't mean it's important to anyone else.

I agree. But you seem in a similar position from my pov. To me it's no more
astonishing for someone to believe the Earth is only 12K~ years old, than it is
to think gods could not exist.

Please see my reply to your other post regarding your inability to
imagine that there are people who don't *care* if gods exist.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/1f68bf791780eae7

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
I used to wonder how they could hold a steady job-until I realized
they were all employed by other Baptist freaks.

Agreed.

Post by d***@.
If God
exists it seems pretty obvious that he made use of the evolutionary method of
creation which took billions of years.

Or perhaps gods do not exist.

That's one of countless possibilities. I have no reason to put faith in that
being the correct one. Neither does anyone else btw, though many people appear
to do so none the less.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
Occam's Razor& such.

That's meaningless in regards to this topic.

What, just because the discussion is about gods?

Because the possibility that gods don't exist is meaningless when
considering the possibility that they do.

Only to the theist attempting to make an exception to logic for their
insipid fantasies. As I said.."special pleading".

Post by d***@.
If you could consider it in a
realistic way

When Fuckwit David Harrison ('***@.') talks about "consider it in a
realistic way", what he /means/ is to see things his way.

d***@.

2011-09-19 16:07:30 UTC

Post by d***@.
Goober if you believe God does not exist then you have whatever amount of
faith

Great. Another fucking moron trying to shift the burden of proof.
Listen up, genius..just because whether or not gods exist is important
to *you*-it doesn't mean it's important to anyone else.

I agree. But you seem in a similar position from my pov. To me it's no more
astonishing for someone to believe the Earth is only 12K~ years old, than it is
to think gods could not exist.

Please see my reply to your other post regarding your inability to
imagine that there are people who don't *care* if gods exist.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/1f68bf791780eae7

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
I used to wonder how they could hold a steady job-until I realized
they were all employed by other Baptist freaks.

Agreed.

Post by d***@.
If God
exists it seems pretty obvious that he made use of the evolutionary method of
creation which took billions of years.

Or perhaps gods do not exist.

That's one of countless possibilities. I have no reason to put faith in that
being the correct one. Neither does anyone else btw, though many people appear
to do so none the less.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
Occam's Razor& such.

That's meaningless in regards to this topic.

What, just because the discussion is about gods?

Because the possibility that gods don't exist is meaningless when
considering the possibility that they do.

Only to the theist attempting to make an exception to logic for their
insipid fantasies. As I said.."special pleading".

Post by d***@.
If you could consider it in a
realistic way

realistic way", what he /means/ is to see things his way.

Goo if you believe God does not exist then you have some degree of faith
that he does not, AND whatever degree of faith that your particular guess about
the matter is correct. You have some degree Goob or you would never insult
people for considering the possibility that he does exist, yet you don't have
very much faith because you wuss badly about it as if you're afraid to say you
believe he does not. You're some sort of weak atheist or agnostic trying to
pretend you're a strong atheist sometimes, even though you're too wussile about
it to even be a lame atheist much less a strong one.

George Plimpton

2011-09-19 13:34:35 UTC

Post by d***@.
If you could consider it in a
realistic way

realistic way", what he /means/ is to see things his way.

if you believe God does not exist then you have some degree of faith
that he does not

That's what you keep asserting, but it's false.

d***@.

2011-09-20 18:50:46 UTC

Post by d***@.
Goober if you believe God does not exist then you have whatever amount of
faith

Great. Another fucking moron trying to shift the burden of proof.
Listen up, genius..just because whether or not gods exist is important
to *you*-it doesn't mean it's important to anyone else.

I agree. But you seem in a similar position from my pov. To me it's no more
astonishing for someone to believe the Earth is only 12K~ years old, than it is
to think gods could not exist.

Please see my reply to your other post regarding your inability to
imagine that there are people who don't *care* if gods exist.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/1f68bf791780eae7

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
I used to wonder how they could hold a steady job-until I realized
they were all employed by other Baptist freaks.

Agreed.

Post by d***@.
If God
exists it seems pretty obvious that he made use of the evolutionary method of
creation which took billions of years.

Or perhaps gods do not exist.

That's one of countless possibilities. I have no reason to put faith in that
being the correct one. Neither does anyone else btw, though many people appear
to do so none the less.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
Occam's Razor& such.

That's meaningless in regards to this topic.

What, just because the discussion is about gods?

Because the possibility that gods don't exist is meaningless when
considering the possibility that they do.

Only to the theist attempting to make an exception to logic for their
insipid fantasies. As I said.."special pleading".

Post by d***@.
If you could consider it in a
realistic way

realistic way", what he /means/ is to see things his way.

That's what you keep asserting, but it's false.

No Goo. You are too wussile about it to be even a lame atheist, and you are
certainly much to wuss to be a strong one.

George Plimpton

2011-09-20 16:21:15 UTC

Post by d***@.
Goober if you believe God does not exist then you have whatever amount of
faith

Great. Another fucking moron trying to shift the burden of proof.
Listen up, genius..just because whether or not gods exist is important
to *you*-it doesn't mean it's important to anyone else.

I agree. But you seem in a similar position from my pov. To me it's no more
astonishing for someone to believe the Earth is only 12K~ years old, than it is
to think gods could not exist.

Please see my reply to your other post regarding your inability to
imagine that there are people who don't *care* if gods exist.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/1f68bf791780eae7

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
I used to wonder how they could hold a steady job-until I realized
they were all employed by other Baptist freaks.

Agreed.

Post by d***@.
If God
exists it seems pretty obvious that he made use of the evolutionary method of
creation which took billions of years.

Or perhaps gods do not exist.

That's one of countless possibilities. I have no reason to put faith in that
being the correct one. Neither does anyone else btw, though many people appear
to do so none the less.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
Occam's Razor& such.

That's meaningless in regards to this topic.

What, just because the discussion is about gods?

Because the possibility that gods don't exist is meaningless when
considering the possibility that they do.

Only to the theist attempting to make an exception to logic for their
insipid fantasies. As I said.."special pleading".

Post by d***@.
If you could consider it in a
realistic way

realistic way", what he /means/ is to see things his way.

if you believe God does not exist then you have some degree of faith
that he does not

That's what you keep asserting, but it's false.

Yes. You keep asserting that, but it's false.

d***@.

2011-09-22 22:03:47 UTC

Post by d***@.
Goober if you believe God does not exist then you have whatever amount of
faith

Great. Another fucking moron trying to shift the burden of proof.
Listen up, genius..just because whether or not gods exist is important
to *you*-it doesn't mean it's important to anyone else.

I agree. But you seem in a similar position from my pov. To me it's no more
astonishing for someone to believe the Earth is only 12K~ years old, than it is
to think gods could not exist.

Please see my reply to your other post regarding your inability to
imagine that there are people who don't *care* if gods exist.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/1f68bf791780eae7

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
I used to wonder how they could hold a steady job-until I realized
they were all employed by other Baptist freaks.

Agreed.

Post by d***@.
If God
exists it seems pretty obvious that he made use of the evolutionary method of
creation which took billions of years.

Or perhaps gods do not exist.

That's one of countless possibilities. I have no reason to put faith in that
being the correct one. Neither does anyone else btw, though many people appear
to do so none the less.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
Occam's Razor& such.

That's meaningless in regards to this topic.

What, just because the discussion is about gods?

Because the possibility that gods don't exist is meaningless when
considering the possibility that they do.

Only to the theist attempting to make an exception to logic for their
insipid fantasies. As I said.."special pleading".

Post by d***@.
If you could consider it in a
realistic way

realistic way", what he /means/ is to see things his way.

That's what you keep asserting, but it's false.

No Goo. You are too wussile about it to be even a lame atheist, and you are
certainly much to wuss to be a strong one.

You keep asserting that, but it's false.

You are too wuss to be a strong atheist or even a lame one, Goo.

George Plimpton

2011-09-23 03:18:08 UTC

Post by d***@.
Goo if you believe God does not exist then you have some degree of faith
that he does not,

That's what you keep asserting, but it's false.

You keep asserting that, but it's false.

You are

You keep asserting that atheists have "faith" that god does not exist,
but it's false.

James Warren

2011-09-23 11:08:56 UTC

Post by d***@.
Goo if you believe God does not exist then you have some degree of faith
that he does not,

That's what you keep asserting, but it's false.

You keep asserting that, but it's false.

You are

You keep asserting that atheists have "faith" that god does not exist,
but it's false.

Yes it it. What we have is a high degree of confidence arising from the
persistent lack of evidence for any gods.

--
jw

George Plimpton

2011-09-23 13:32:08 UTC

Post by James Warren

Post by d***@.
Goo if you believe God does not exist then you have some degree of faith
that he does not,

That's what you keep asserting, but it's false.

You keep asserting that, but it's false.

You are

You keep asserting that atheists have "faith" that god does not exist,
but it's false.

Yes it it. What we have is a high degree of confidence arising from the
persistent lack of evidence for any gods.

Give that man a cigar!

d***@.

2011-09-19 16:21:04 UTC

Post by d***@.
Goober if you believe God does not exist then you have whatever amount of
faith

Great. Another fucking moron trying to shift the burden of proof.
Listen up, genius..just because whether or not gods exist is important
to *you*-it doesn't mean it's important to anyone else.

I agree. But you seem in a similar position from my pov. To me it's no more
astonishing for someone to believe the Earth is only 12K~ years old, than it is
to think gods could not exist.

Please see my reply to your other post regarding your inability to
imagine that there are people who don't *care* if gods exist.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/1f68bf791780eae7

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
I used to wonder how they could hold a steady job-until I realized
they were all employed by other Baptist freaks.

Agreed.

Post by d***@.
If God
exists it seems pretty obvious that he made use of the evolutionary method of
creation which took billions of years.

Or perhaps gods do not exist.

That's one of countless possibilities. I have no reason to put faith in that
being the correct one. Neither does anyone else btw, though many people appear
to do so none the less.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
Occam's Razor & such.

That's meaningless in regards to this topic.

What, just because the discussion is about gods?

Because the possibility that gods don't exist is meaningless when
considering the possibility that they do.

Only to the theist

To everyone including yourself.

Post by p***@hotmail.com
attempting to make an exception to logic for their
insipid fantasies. As I said.."special pleading".

There's an example of you insulting the possibility that God exists, yet you
claim to have no faith that he does not. You do, but you're ashamed of it. In
fact you're ashamed of it to the point that you are embarrassed to say how much
faith you have, though you behave as if you have a good bit. It was a surprise
to me to learn that most people who think they are strong atheists are also
ashamed of the very faith that would make them one if they were. MOST of you
that I've encountered are that way, and I've only encountered a very few and
very very small percentage who will acknowledge it and say how much faith they
have. To me those people are the only true strong atheists, and those of you who
deny the faith you would be required to have I think of as lame atheists. So
there are weak atheists who have no belief and therefore must consider the
possibility that God does exist, there are strong atheists who have whatever
amount of faith that God does/gods do not exist and are not ashamed of it, and
then there are lame atheists who have some degree of faith that God does not
exist but are ashamed of it for some reason and possibly even try denying it to
themselves.

If you could consider it in a
realistic way

Earth to D..the "realistic way" is that since there is so little
evidence for the existence of such creatures,

That doesn't mean anything. Nothing.

Post by p***@hotmail.com
the "question" should be
compared to similar concerns about the existence of the thousands of
other mythological creatures human fantasy has created.
Again, it's not *my* fault that *you* still consider your fantasies
worthy of serious discussion.

I'm very interested in why you have such faith that there are no gods in the
universe. Where all have you checked, and how did you conduct your
investigations? For example: How did you test to make sure that no gods had/have
influence on the way evolution takes place on this planet? How have you done so
on other planets outside of this star system, and in which other systems have
you checked?

Post by p***@hotmail.com
And to someone who does not accept your
"special pleading", there's no difference between your insistence that
the existence of gods is an "important" issue.

You're discussing it too. Or did you forget that part?

Post by p***@hotmail.com
There's a reason so many atheists make the comparison between
discarding your god/s, and discarding Santa or the Tooth Fairy.

It's obviously because they're ignorant of how clueless they appear when
they try to compare such incredibly dissimilar types of situations. Not Santa
and the TF, but the two things that we know are lies and the possibility of
God's existence which we do NOT. Unless you think you found out, in which case
let us know how, because I know you haven't done it yet.

Post by p***@hotmail.com
It's
because we're trying to get it through your thick heads that to
us..there honestly is *no* difference.

If that's true it only means that you're remarkably clueless. Now if you had
a way of finding out whether or not gods had/have anything to do with things on
this planet THEN the things would all be similar, but since you do NOT know
whether or not gods exist then the things are not similar and you reveal
yourself as at best very ignorant by trying to pretend they are similar.

Post by p***@hotmail.com
Your continued attempts to berate me simply because I do not share
your level of concern about the issue is ridiculous.
Your god/s may be important to you..whether or not god/s exist may be
important to you..but they are not important to me.

That's something else you don't know. You HOPE they're not important to you
...LOL... but it's amusing that you think whether you want them to be or not has
anything to do with how important they actually are/will be to you.

Post by p***@hotmail.com
The only reason I discuss such nonsense in the first place is because
I think religious nonsense is harmful to a healthy society..and that
pointing out such flaws in theistic (alleged) thinking is a way to
insure there will be fewer theists in the future.

You don't have a single argument and you're ashamed of your own faith. You
have less than nothing because you reveal your STILL childlike way of thinking
about God. It is very childlike BECAUSE OF the ignorance factor which I pointed
out to you earlier. LOL... I WANT you to let me know if God doesn't exist. If he
doesn't I very badly WANT TO know it. But I can't, and neither can anyone else
including you. So I don't cling desperately to the one possibility that he does
not as you do because I can't find any reason to put faith in it as you have
even though I ASK for it.

Post by p***@hotmail.com
I'm snipping the rest of your post, because once again...it's based
upon (at the least) a complete misunderstanding of my argument, or (at
the most) a completely fallacious claim.

Everything I've pointed out to you is true including the things you don't
like. That being the case it's not my fault that they are as they are. All I'm
doing is reminding you of facts you wish were not true.

panamfloyd@hotmail.com rade

2011-09-22 04:08:27 UTC

Post by d***@.
Goober if you believe God does not exist then you have whatever amount of
faith

Great. Another fucking moron trying to shift the burden of proof.
Listen up, genius..just because whether or not gods exist is important
to *you*-it doesn't mean it's important to anyone else.

I agree. But you seem in a similar position from my pov. To me it's no more
astonishing for someone to believe the Earth is only 12K~ years old, than it is
to think gods could not exist.

Please see my reply to your other post regarding your inability to
imagine that there are people who don't *care* if gods exist.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/1f68bf791780eae7

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
I used to wonder how they could hold a steady job-until I realized
they were all employed by other Baptist freaks.

Agreed.

Post by d***@.
If God
exists it seems pretty obvious that he made use of the evolutionary method of
creation which took billions of years.

Or perhaps gods do not exist.

That's one of countless possibilities. I have no reason to put faith in that
being the correct one. Neither does anyone else btw, though many people appear
to do so none the less.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
Occam's Razor & such.

That's meaningless in regards to this topic.

What, just because the discussion is about gods?

Because the possibility that gods don't exist is meaningless when
considering the possibility that they do.

Only to the theist

To everyone including yourself.

Again, the only reason I discuss the "existence question" is because I
consider theism a danger to modern society, and by showing how absurd
& illogical belief in the "supernatural" actually is, I hope to reduce
the number of theists in the world.

I have previously attempted to describe that to you...

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/1f68bf791780eae7

It's certainly not my fault if you're ignorant/uninformed/stupid to
understand what I wrote. Here, perhaps *this* will help.

http://www.literacy.uconn.edu/compre.htm

Post by p***@hotmail.com
attempting to make an exception to logic for their
insipid fantasies. As I said.."special pleading".

There's an example of you insulting the possibility that God exists,

You (again!) wish for me to make an "exception" for your god/s that I
would not normally make for other equally unproven "supernatural"
phenomena. I also "insult" the possibility that Santa, the Tooth
Fairy, the Frisbee-playing manatees on Ganymede, and hundreds of
thousands of other mythological creatures created by the mind of
humanity have created.

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/specplea.html

Please educate yourself before you embarrass yourself in alt.atheism
yet again..

Once more, I'm going to snip your insipid special pleading because
it's still just as irrelevant as it was the *first* time you were dumb
enough to post up such nonsense..

-Panama Floyd, Atlanta.
aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA!
"..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."
-Mark Twain

Religious societies are *less* moral than secular ones:
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html

huge

2011-09-22 04:45:25 UTC

Post by d***@.
Goober if you believe God does not exist then you have whatever amount of
faith

Great. Another fucking moron trying to shift the burden of proof.
Listen up, genius..just because whether or not gods exist is important
to *you*-it doesn't mean it's important to anyone else.

I agree. But you seem in a similar position from my pov. To me it's no more
astonishing for someone to believe the Earth is only 12K~ years old, than it is
to think gods could not exist.

Please see my reply to your other post regarding your inability to
imagine that there are people who don't *care* if gods exist.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/1f68bf791780eae7

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
I used to wonder how they could hold a steady job-until I realized
they were all employed by other Baptist freaks.

Agreed.

Post by d***@.
If God
exists it seems pretty obvious that he made use of the evolutionary method of
creation which took billions of years.

Or perhaps gods do not exist.

That's one of countless possibilities. I have no reason to put faith in that
being the correct one. Neither does anyone else btw, though many people appear
to do so none the less.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
Occam's Razor& such.

That's meaningless in regards to this topic.

What, just because the discussion is about gods?

Because the possibility that gods don't exist is meaningless when
considering the possibility that they do.

Only to the theist

To everyone including yourself.

Again, the only reason I discuss the "existence question" is because I
consider theism a danger to modern society, and by showing how absurd
& illogical belief in the "supernatural" actually is, I hope to reduce
the number of theists in the world.
I have previously attempted to describe that to you...
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/1f68bf791780eae7
It's certainly not my fault if you're ignorant/uninformed/stupid to
understand what I wrote. Here, perhaps *this* will help.
http://www.literacy.uconn.edu/compre.htm

Post by p***@hotmail.com
attempting to make an exception to logic for their
insipid fantasies. As I said.."special pleading".

There's an example of you insulting the possibility that God exists,

OMFS, his freaking _POSSIBILITY_ was insulted!
Floyd, these people have no idea how funny they are.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
You (again!) wish for me to make an "exception" for your god/s that I
would not normally make for other equally unproven "supernatural"
phenomena. I also "insult" the possibility that Santa, the Tooth
Fairy, the Frisbee-playing manatees on Ganymede, and hundreds of
thousands of other mythological creatures created by the mind of
humanity have created.
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/specplea.html
Please educate yourself before you embarrass yourself in alt.atheism
yet again..
Once more, I'm going to snip your insipid special pleading because
it's still just as irrelevant as it was the *first* time you were dumb
enough to post up such nonsense..
-Panama Floyd, Atlanta.
aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA!
"..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."
-Mark Twain
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html

d***@.

2011-09-22 22:18:00 UTC

Post by huge

Post by p***@hotmail.com
attempting to make an exception to logic for their
insipid fantasies. As I said.."special pleading".

There's an example of you insulting the possibility that God exists,

OMFS, his freaking _POSSIBILITY_ was insulted!

Mine is certainly much greater than the possibility that there are no gods
in the universe. In fact it's probably considerably better than the possibility
that there are no gods associated with this planet.

Post by huge
Floyd, these people have no idea how funny they are.

Not as funny as people who think the faith of those who believe God does not
exist is somehow superior to the faith of those who believe he does. That one's
hilarious just on the surface, and then when the poor naive fools start trying
to deny that same faith it remains amusing but leans more toward pathetic than
just amusing. It's sad that people could be so igorant and naive if they
actually are, and even sadder if they're not really that clueless but are just
dishonestly pretending to be.

panamfloyd@hotmail.com rade

2011-09-22 21:52:36 UTC

Post by huge

Post by d***@.
Goober if you believe God does not exist then you have whatever amount of
faith

Great. Another fucking moron trying to shift the burden of proof.
Listen up, genius..just because whether or not gods exist is important
to *you*-it doesn't mean it's important to anyone else.

I agree. But you seem in a similar position from my pov. To me it's no more
astonishing for someone to believe the Earth is only 12K~ years old, than it is
to think gods could not exist.

Please see my reply to your other post regarding your inability to
imagine that there are people who don't *care* if gods exist.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/1f68bf791780eae7

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
I used to wonder how they could hold a steady job-until I realized
they were all employed by other Baptist freaks.

Agreed.

Post by d***@.
If God
exists it seems pretty obvious that he made use of the evolutionary method of
creation which took billions of years.

Or perhaps gods do not exist.

That's one of countless possibilities. I have no reason to put faith in that
being the correct one. Neither does anyone else btw, though many people appear
to do so none the less.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
Occam's Razor& such.

That's meaningless in regards to this topic.

What, just because the discussion is about gods?

Because the possibility that gods don't exist is meaningless when
considering the possibility that they do.

Only to the theist

To everyone including yourself.

Again, the only reason I discuss the "existence question" is because I
consider theism a danger to modern society, and by showing how absurd
& illogical belief in the "supernatural" actually is, I hope to reduce
the number of theists in the world.
I have previously attempted to describe that to you...
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/1f68bf791780eae7
It's certainly not my fault if you're ignorant/uninformed/stupid to
understand what I wrote. Here, perhaps *this* will help.
http://www.literacy.uconn.edu/compre.htm

Post by p***@hotmail.com
attempting to make an exception to logic for their
insipid fantasies. As I said.."special pleading".

There's an example of you insulting the possibility that God exists,

OMFS, his freaking _POSSIBILITY_ was insulted!
Floyd, these people have no idea how funny they are.

Yeah. Really, it figures though..if just saying "I don't believe you"
offends them (LOL), no wonder saying "I don't give a shit" sends `em
into apoplexy.

Jeez, I even gave him a definition of special pleading, and he still
doesn't get it. Captain of the Clueless Club.

-Panama Floyd, Atlanta.
aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA!
"..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."
-Mark Twain

Religious societies are *less* moral than secular ones:
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html

d***@.

2011-09-22 22:11:54 UTC

Post by d***@.
Goober if you believe God does not exist then you have whatever amount of
faith

Great. Another fucking moron trying to shift the burden of proof.
Listen up, genius..just because whether or not gods exist is important
to *you*-it doesn't mean it's important to anyone else.

I agree. But you seem in a similar position from my pov. To me it's no more
astonishing for someone to believe the Earth is only 12K~ years old, than it is
to think gods could not exist.

Please see my reply to your other post regarding your inability to
imagine that there are people who don't *care* if gods exist.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/1f68bf791780eae7

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
I used to wonder how they could hold a steady job-until I realized
they were all employed by other Baptist freaks.

Agreed.

Post by d***@.
If God
exists it seems pretty obvious that he made use of the evolutionary method of
creation which took billions of years.

Or perhaps gods do not exist.

That's one of countless possibilities. I have no reason to put faith in that
being the correct one. Neither does anyone else btw, though many people appear
to do so none the less.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
Occam's Razor & such.

That's meaningless in regards to this topic.

What, just because the discussion is about gods?

Because the possibility that gods don't exist is meaningless when
considering the possibility that they do.

Only to the theist

To everyone including yourself.

If God does exist that still doesn't make him "supernatural" since the
things he does would be natural to him.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
I have previously attempted to describe that to you...
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/1f68bf791780eae7
It's certainly not my fault if you're ignorant/uninformed/stupid to
understand what I wrote. Here, perhaps *this* will help.
http://www.literacy.uconn.edu/compre.htm

I don't have time to try to help you. If you think you have something worth
sharing then trim down to the significant part(s) and post it.

Post by p***@hotmail.com
attempting to make an exception to logic for their
insipid fantasies. As I said.."special pleading".

There's an example of you insulting the possibility that God exists,

You (again!) wish for me to make an "exception" for your god/s that I
would not normally make for other equally unproven "supernatural"
phenomena.

LOL! What do you think has unproven God, and why has no one ever presented
it here?

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
I also "insult" the possibility that Santa, the Tooth
Fairy,

Those are much different. If you truly can't figure out how then you truly
have a naive and childlike interpretation of this topic.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
the Frisbee-playing manatees on Ganymede, and hundreds of
thousands of other mythological creatures created by the mind of
humanity have created.
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/specplea.html
Please educate yourself

YOU need to educate me as to how you think you found out that God does not
exist, if you think you can. But you can't. You can't even come close because in
reality you have no idea whether he does or not and no dependable way of trying
to find out. The fact that you seem unaware of the fact that you're in that
position reveals your naivety very clearly.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
before you embarrass yourself in alt.atheism
yet again..

LOL!!! Pointing out your failings doesn't embarrass me.

panamfloyd@hotmail.com rade

2011-09-22 21:58:16 UTC

Post by d***@.
Goober if you believe God does not exist then you have whatever amount of
faith

Great. Another fucking moron trying to shift the burden of proof.
Listen up, genius..just because whether or not gods exist is important
to *you*-it doesn't mean it's important to anyone else.

I agree. But you seem in a similar position from my pov. To me it's no more
astonishing for someone to believe the Earth is only 12K~ years old, than it is
to think gods could not exist.

Please see my reply to your other post regarding your inability to
imagine that there are people who don't *care* if gods exist.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/1f68bf791780eae7

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
I used to wonder how they could hold a steady job-until I realized
they were all employed by other Baptist freaks.

Agreed.

Post by d***@.
If God
exists it seems pretty obvious that he made use of the evolutionary method of
creation which took billions of years.

Or perhaps gods do not exist.

That's one of countless possibilities. I have no reason to put faith in that
being the correct one. Neither does anyone else btw, though many people appear
to do so none the less.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
Occam's Razor & such.

That's meaningless in regards to this topic.

What, just because the discussion is about gods?

Because the possibility that gods don't exist is meaningless when
considering the possibility that they do.

Only to the theist

To everyone including yourself.

If God does exist that still doesn't make him "supernatural" since the
things he does would be natural to him.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
I have previously attempted to describe that to you...

But you have yet to demonstrate why it's important.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/1f68bf791780eae7
It's certainly not my fault if you're ignorant/uninformed/stupid to
understand what I wrote. Here, perhaps *this* will help.
http://www.literacy.uconn.edu/compre.htm

I don't have time to try to help you. If you think you have something worth
sharing then trim down to the significant part(s) and post it.

Post by p***@hotmail.com
attempting to make an exception to logic for their
insipid fantasies. As I said.."special pleading".

There's an example of you insulting the possibility that God exists,

You (again!) wish for me to make an "exception" for your god/s that I
would not normally make for other equally unproven "supernatural"
phenomena.

LOL! What do you think has unproven God, and why has no one ever presented
it here?

What makes you think I care? As I've stated previously, my concern is
the damage done by superstition..based upon the evidence, whether or
not the critters they talk to actually exist is irrelevant.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
I also "insult" the possibility that Santa, the Tooth
Fairy,

Those are much different.

No, they're not. You didn't read that link I gave describing the
special pleading fallacy, did you..

-Panama Floyd, Atlanta.
aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA!
"..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."
-Mark Twain

Religious societies are *less* moral than secular ones:
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html

Mike Lovell

2011-09-22 22:16:12 UTC

Post by d***@.
LOL! What do you think has unproven God, and why has no one ever presented
it here?

Wow so you believe in everything that hasn't been unproven? That's a
lot of beliefs you hold.

Tell me, how do you pay homage to Zeus? Also can you describe the
tea-pot that orbits the Earth for us?

Post by d***@.
Those are much different. If you truly can't figure out how then you truly
have a naive and childlike interpretation of this topic.

Perhaps you'd like to explain. Like God they are invented by man, they
are fictional.

Post by d***@.
YOU need to educate me as to how you think you found out that God does not
exist, if you think you can. But you can't. You can't even come close because in
reality you have no idea whether he does or not and no dependable way of trying
to find out. The fact that you seem unaware of the fact that you're in that
position reveals your naivety very clearly.

(see above)

You want disproof? :-) This is why a lot of theists can't make it in
the world of science and reason.

Nice to know that *anything* I can suggest that cannot be disproved you
believe to be true. And there's a limitless supply of these things.

--
Mike

Catawimp's defeat: ***@usenet.home.b0h0.com
Why is he afraid of replying to this post in full?

d***@.

2011-09-08 16:29:37 UTC

Goober if you believe God does not exist then you have whatever amount of
faith

Great. Another fucking moron trying to shift the burden of proof.

Apparently you're another fucking moron trying to shift the burden of your
own faith. Trying to do that is caused by your shame. Your shame is that your
own faith is in no way superior to that of those you ridicule...LOL...but you
very badly want it to be and don't like having it pointed out that it's not.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
Listen up, genius..just because whether or not gods exist is important
to *you*-it doesn't mean it's important to anyone else.

Now you've changed the subject to importance.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
If you're a theist, you're claiming some crazy shit.

The idea that there are no beings we could consider gods in the universe
seems at least incredibly ignorant, if not crazy, from my pov. LOL...do you
think we may be the most advanced beings in the universe? If not, how about the
galaxy? Or maybe you think this is the only planet in the whole universe that
has life on it? Or in the galaxy?

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
And there's no
"faith" involved when an atheist

There are weak atheists and strong atheists. Weak atheists don't have a
belief so they should consider the possibility of God's existence. Strong
atheists have the belief that God does not exist, and how much faith they have
that that is correct is what determines how strong an atheist they are or are
not.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
tells you he doesn't believe you.

How strongly you believe I'm wrong is the amount of faith you have that I
am. You shouldn't be ashamed of it, but you are. Why, is the question. One
reason as I pointed out is that you want to consider YOUR faith to be superior.
Well, everyone does of course, but you want to take it to the extreme of saying
your own faith is not faith. You haven't moved on from there to say what you
want to call your own faith since you don't want to call it faith. Very few will
say what they want to call it but at least one person has in the past. He wanted
to call it "knowledge". LOL......

Christopher A. Lee

2011-09-08 16:58:11 UTC

On Thu, 08 Sep 2011 09:29:37 -0700, ***@. wrote:

when did this seriously mentally ill individual get out of the
killfile?

Has he changed his nym or his address?

Anyway, back he goes.

Goober if you believe God does not exist then you have whatever amount of
faith

And here dh@ yet again demonstrates he is a liar as well as an idiot.

A pig-ignorant moron who is too stupid to understand the world and
people outside his religion.

So he invents positions anybody with greater than room temperature
knows they don't have, and amateur-psychologises these.

But like all religious narcissists he doesn't realise they only
project his own serious deficiencies, because his is the only mind set
he knows.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
Great. Another fucking moron trying to shift the burden of proof.

Apparently you're another fucking moron

Liar.

Post by d***@.
trying to shift the burden of your

Liar.

Post by d***@.
own faith.

Liar.

Post by d***@.
Trying to do that

Liar.

Post by d***@.
is caused by your shame.

Liar.

Post by d***@.
Your shame

Liar.

Post by d***@.
is that your
own faith

Liar.

Post by d***@.
is in no way superior to that of those you ridicule.

Liar.

If you mentally ill lunatics kept your stupidity to yourselves instead
of wiping it in out faces, we wouldn't even know about it yet alone
ridicule it.

Post by d***@.
..LOL...but you
very badly want it to be

Liar.

Post by d***@.
and don't like having it pointed out that it's not.

Liar.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
Listen up, genius..just because whether or not gods exist is important
to *you*-it doesn't mean it's important to anyone else.

Now you've changed the subject to importance.

No, liar.

It's why you mentally ill psychos can't keep your bullshit to
yourself, and why you lie about the negative reaction to your own
stupidity and rudeness.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
If you're a theist, you're claiming some crazy shit.

The idea that there are no beings we could consider gods in the universe
seems at least incredibly ignorant,

Where did he say that, liar?

The problem is that you Liars For God never provide any evidence for
them, so they remain merely your deluded fantasies that you haven't
the common sense or courtesy to keep[ where they belong - inside your
religions.

Post by d***@.
if not crazy, from my pov. LOL...

You think your rudeness, stupidity and personal lies are funny?

Get help for your mental illness.

Post by d***@.
do you
think

You certainly don't.

Post by d***@.
we may be the most advanced beings in the universe? If not, how about the
galaxy? Or maybe you think this is the only planet in the whole universe that
has life on it? Or in the galaxy?

Idiot.

Most of don't even give it a thought.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
And there's no
"faith" involved when an atheist

Liar.

Post by d***@.
There are weak atheists and strong atheists. Weak atheists don't have a
belief so they should consider the possibility of God's existence.

Why should we, moron?

This is the real world where your god called God is merely one of
hundreds of equivalent beliefs.

And no different from any of the others like Zeus, Odin, Krishna etc
until you demonstrate objectively that it is it real and all the
others aren't.

Are you really honestly this stupid or just being an in-your-face
personally nasty liar for the sake of it?

Post by d***@.
Strong
atheists have the belief that God does not exist,

Liar.

It's just how they use language - and in any case is no different than
saying there are no leprechauns.

What's wrong with you?

Post by d***@.
and how much faith they have

Liar.

Post by d***@.
that that is correct is what determines how strong an atheist they are or are
not.

Liar.

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
tells you he doesn't believe you.

How strongly you believe I'm wrong is the amount of faith you have that I
am.

Liar.

Post by d***@.
You shouldn't be ashamed of it,

He has nothing to be ashamed of, liar.

Post by d***@.
but you are.

Liar.

Post by d***@.
Why, is the question.

A question whose very premise is a personally nasty lie.

Post by d***@.
One
reason as I pointed out is that you want to consider YOUR faith to be superior.

He doesn't any faith, liar.

Post by d***@.
Well, everyone does of course,

The narcissist projects himself again.

Post by d***@.
but you want

Liar.

Post by d***@.
to take it to the extreme of saying
your own faith

He doesn't have any, liar.

Post by d***@.
is not faith.

He doesn't have any, liar.

Post by d***@.
You haven't moved on from there to say what you
want to call your own faith since you don't want to call it faith.

More of the same lies.

Post by d***@.
Very few will
say what they want to call it but at least one person has in the past.

That's what theists do, liar.

Post by d***@.
He wanted
to call it "knowledge". LOL......

Knowledge from conclusions by applying logic to what you in-your-face
stupid psychotics insist on telling us whether or not we are
interested.

Here's a clue: keep you bullshit to yourselves and nobody will give it
a thought.

But insist that it is true , and insist on attributes that reduce it
to zero then we know it cannot exist.

d***@.

2011-09-13 19:55:35 UTC

. . .

Goober if you believe God does not exist then you have whatever amount of
faith

A pig-ignorant moron who is too stupid to understand the world and
people outside his religion.

I understand that your faith is no way superior to anyone else's. You not
only can not understand that fact...LOL...but you probably consider your own
faith to be "knowledge". LOL...
. . .

Post by Christopher A. Lee
If you mentally ill lunatics kept your stupidity to yourselves instead
of wiping it in out faces, we wouldn't even know about it yet alone
ridicule it.

LOL! Your stupid remarks ridicule you, not the possibility of God's
existence. They also ridicule your own faith, btw. By denying your own faith you
ridicule yourself AND your faith.
. . .

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
Listen up, genius..just because whether or not gods exist is important
to *you*-it doesn't mean it's important to anyone else.

Now you've changed the subject to importance.

Liar.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
, liar.
It's why you mentally ill psychos can't keep your bullshit to
yourself, and why you lie about the negative reaction to your own
stupidity and rudeness.

LOL! What in the fuck do you think you're trying to talk about?

Post by ***@hotmail.com rade
If you're a theist, you're claiming some crazy shit.

The idea that there are no beings we could consider gods in the universe
seems at least incredibly ignorant,

Where did he say that

Do you think he believes there are some somewhere, but there just couldn't
be any associated with Earth for some reason? LOL! What a concept.
. . .

Idiot.
Most of don't even give it a thought.

That's one of the things that puts you amoung the most clueless people on
Earth regarding this topic.
. . .

Post by d***@.
Very few will
say what they want to call it but at least one person has in the past.

. . .

Post by d***@.
He wanted to call it "knowledge". LOL......

Knowledge from conclusions by applying logic

LOL! Your supposed knowledge about the entire universe comes from the
perspective of a group of beings who can't even travel to the outskirts of their
own star system...LOL....
. . .

Post by Christopher A. Lee
we know it cannot exist.

LOL!!!!!!!

p***@hotmail.com

2011-09-12 01:16:07 UTC

Goober if you believe God does not exist then you have whatever amount of
faith

Great. Another fucking moron trying to shift the burden of proof.

Apparently you're another fucking moron trying to shift the burden of your
own faith.

I am an atheist. I have no "faith". You consider the "question of
existence" as an important one? Your problem, not mine. From a
rational standpoint, the theist is making the claim. From the
standpoint of the evidence, it's an extraordinary claim. After
seriously studying the evidence, I find the likelihood of the
"supernatural" extremely unlikely..and therefore, UNIMPORTANT. Why do
so many thiests have a problem understanding such a simple concept?
There's a reason we crack those old chestnuts about Santa & the Tooth
Fairy all the time..it's trying to get it through a theist's head that
the concepts actually *are* equally vacuous within our own.

I don't *care* if gods exist. The only reason I discuss it is that
many of the people who *do* care wish to harm modern societies. Seems
to me that one way to protect those societies is to show the complete
rational bankruptcy of god-belief, and hope that otherwise rational
people will find the ability to reject that nonsense after being
exposed to the evidence. Fewer "godbots" means fewer bad decisions in
the ballot box, fewer restraints on human rights (most theistic
traditions are quite "tribal" and exclusionary), and a focus upon the
long-term view, rather than the short-term.

I'm snipping the rest of your projections, since they're based on a
faulty premise.

Many folks say that the peer review process works because it is done by people that are
edcuated in their respective fields. These people go over all of the data to validate it
and verify the correctness.

You don't think education is worthwhile? Next time you need surgical
care, let Joe the Plumber do it instead. I'm so fucking sick of the
anti-intellectual crap coming out of so many Americans' mouths (and
ironically, keyboards).

snip moronic question

-Panama Floyd, Atlanta.
aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA!
"..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."
-Mark Twain

Religious societies are *less* moral than secular ones:
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html

d***@.

2011-09-13 19:56:17 UTC

Goober if you believe God does not exist then you have whatever amount of
faith

Great. Another fucking moron trying to shift the burden of proof.

Apparently you're another fucking moron trying to shift the burden of your
own faith.

I don't believe anything is supernatural, and that God would not be if he
exists. Instead it would all be natural but just unusual for us.

Post by p***@hotmail.com
Why do
so many thiests have a problem understanding such a simple concept?
There's a reason we crack those old chestnuts about Santa & the Tooth
Fairy all the time..it's trying to get it through a theist's head that
the concepts actually *are* equally vacuous within our own.

They are nothing alike. That you can't appreciate that fact shows a HUGE
limitation on your way of thinking.

Post by p***@hotmail.com
I don't *care* if gods exist.

It doesn't matter whether you care or not. If they don't exist they wouldn't
suddenly begin to exist if you learned to care.

Post by p***@hotmail.com
The only reason I discuss it is that
many of the people who *do* care wish to harm modern societies. Seems
to me that one way to protect those societies is to show the complete
rational bankruptcy of god-belief,

You don't have any more idea whether or not gods exist than anyone else
does. In fact with your restrictions on your own thinking you are necessarily in
the group of most clueless people on Earth about the possibilities.

Post by p***@hotmail.com
and hope that otherwise rational
people will find the ability to reject that nonsense after being
exposed to the evidence. Fewer "godbots" means fewer bad decisions in
the ballot box, fewer restraints on human rights (most theistic
traditions are quite "tribal" and exclusionary), and a focus upon the
long-term view, rather than the short-term.
I'm snipping the rest of your projections, since they're based on a
faulty premise.

LOL!!! None are. That means they contained information you're afraid to
think about. You are similar to eliminationists in that you restrict your
thinking and pick and choose what you will and will not allow yourself to take
into consideration, so nothing threatens what you WANT to believe. You have
built a little mental safety zone which you're afraid to stick even one nostril
out of, and it seems you have been afraid since you were a child. I of course
wonder why, and you of course can never afford to say.

SkyEyes

2011-09-07 22:20:48 UTC

WHO IS JESUS?

A fiction

No.

It is not a question of faith in any way.

You always write that

I'll be happy to consider the possibility that some god exists. Got
any objective, verifiable evidence that any god exists? When you do,
get back to me. Until then, I lack faith in any god. I simply don't
know. Why "have faith" in something that can't be shown to exist?
Should I also "have faith" in leprechauns? Elves? Vampires?

Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
BAAWA Knight of the Golden Litterbox
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
skyeyes nine at cox dot net OR
skyeyes nine at yahoo dot com

d***@.

2011-09-08 16:53:32 UTC

WHO IS JESUS?

A fiction

No.

It is not a question of faith in any way.

Goober if you believe God does not exist then you have whatever amount of
faith that you're correct.

There is no question of my having "faith" that there is no god.

Yes there is Goob. You either have faith that he does not, or you don't. If
you don't then you outstupid yourself when you criticize people for believing
that he does exist, Goo. If you do, then you outstupid yourself when you deny
your own faith in that possibility being the correct one. The only way for you
to get out of that position is to either openly accept the possibility that God
might exist, or openly acknowledge your faith in the possibility that he does
not.

Post by d***@.
If you don't really have any faith that he does not
then you're stupid for insulting people for considering the possibility that he
does, or for believing that he does. If you do have faith that God doesn't exist
then you do, but it's still not better than anyone else's faith since you could
have nothing to base it on. Either way you outstupid yourself again when you
make claims like you do that God doesn't exist, and insult people for believing
in him, etc.

You always write that

Mike Lovell

2011-09-08 17:09:46 UTC

Post by d***@.
Yes there is Goob. You either have faith that he does not, or you don't. If
you don't then you outstupid yourself when you criticize people for believing
that he does exist, Goo. If you do, then you outstupid yourself when you deny
your own faith in that possibility being the correct one. The only way for you
to get out of that position is to either openly accept the possibility that God
might exist, or openly acknowledge your faith in the possibility that he does
not.

I don't have the post this is a response to (possibly user agent I
blocked due to SPAM).

But it seems to me as if Goob is taking the position of a old fashion
atheist, in believing God doesn't exist.

Most atheists here take the position that we do not believe in God. The
absence of belief. A neutral position.

While it's not a good idea to ever say anything is 100% impossible it's
sensible to be pragmatic and go with the body of evidence coupled with
common sense.

--
Mike

d***@.

2011-09-13 19:55:02 UTC

Post by Mike Lovell

I don't have the post this is a response to (possibly user agent I
blocked due to SPAM).
But it seems to me as if Goob is taking the position of a old fashion
atheist, in believing God doesn't exist.

That's the strong atheist position. The weak atheist position is to not have
a belief, which would involve considering the possibility that God does exist.
The lame atheist position is to be a strong atheist yet deny having the faith
required in order to be one.

Post by Mike Lovell
Most atheists here take the position that we do not believe in God. The
absence of belief. A neutral position.

People in that position are in no position to ridicule others for believing
in God, or for considering the possibility of his existence.

Post by Mike Lovell
While it's not a good idea to ever say anything is 100% impossible it's
sensible to be pragmatic and go with the body of evidence coupled with
common sense.

OK. Humans have learned to do quite a bit in 10K years even though our
progress really has been pathetically slow because of our tendency to work
against each other instead of together. Considering what humans have learned to
do, and how many galaxies there are, it seems more than likely that some beings
in some places have developed to the point that they could be considered Gods.
Whether or not any of them are associated with this planet is a bigger question,
but there's evidence that they are regardless of whether they are or not, or how
much of it people can and cannot appreciate.

d***@.

2011-09-13 19:55:12 UTC

WHO IS JESUS?

A fiction

No.

It is not a question of faith in any way.

Goober if you believe God does not exist

Not something I ever claimed.

If you do NOT believe it Goob, then you have outstupided yourself every time
you've ever been insulting to someone for believing in God or considering the
possibility of his existence. It's yet another way you outstupid yourself Goo.

Post by d***@.
then you have whatever amount of

Post by d***@.
faith that you're correct.

There is no question of my having "faith" that there is no god.

Yes there is Goob. You either have faith that he does not, or you don't.

No, that's false.

LOL!!! Do you think you only "sort of" believe he doesn't exist, Goo?

Post by d***@.
If
you don't then you outstupid yourself when you criticize people for believing
that he does exist, Goo. If you do, then you outstupid yourself when you deny
your own faith in that possibility being the correct one. The only way for you
to get out of that position is to either openly accept the possibility that God
might exist, or openly acknowledge your faith in the possibility that he does
not.

You always write that

George Plimpton

2011-09-13 19:12:53 UTC

So you concede that you don't know whether God exists or not any better than
anyone else does Goo and your faith

It is not a question of faith in any way.

Goober if you believe God does not exist

Not something I ever claimed.

If you do NOT believe it

Show that I said I believed it, Fuckwit <chortle>

Post by d***@.
then you have whatever amount of

Post by d***@.
faith that you're correct.

There is no question of my having "faith" that there is no god.

Yes there is

No, that's false.

LOL!!! Do you think you only "sort of" believe he doesn't exist

I never said, Fuckwit. Anyway, what I actually think about it is not a
matter of belief or "faith".

d***@.

2011-09-15 22:37:07 UTC

WHO IS JESUS?

A fiction

No.

It is not a question of faith in any way.

Goober if you believe God does not exist

Not something I ever claimed.

Post by d***@.
then you have whatever amount of

Post by d***@.
faith that you're correct.

There is no question of my having "faith" that there is no god.

Yes there is Goob. You either have faith that he does not, or you don't.

No, that's false.

LOL!!! Do you think you only "sort of" believe he doesn't exist, Goo?

I never said

I've seen you ridicule people for believing in God Goo. Unless you're
convinced he does not exist, you're being extremely stupid even for you when you
ridicule someone else for believing.

Post by George Plimpton
, Fuckwit. Anyway, what I actually think about it is not a
matter of belief or "faith".

LOL! What do you think it is then Goob? Do you think you "know" the answer
while everyone else is just guessing?

George Plimpton

2011-09-15 19:57:07 UTC

WHO IS JESUS?

A fiction

No.

It is not a question of faith in any way.

Goober if you believe God does not exist

Not something I ever claimed.

Post by d***@.
then you have whatever amount of

Post by d***@.
faith that you're correct.

There is no question of my having "faith" that there is no god.

Yes there is Goob. You either have faith that he does not, or you don't.

No, that's false.

LOL!!! Do you think you only "sort of" believe he doesn't exist, Goo?

I never said, Fuckwit.

I've seen you ridicule people for believing in God

You've seen me ridicule people for irrationally believing stuff - you,
for example.

Post by George Plimpton
Anyway, what I actually think about it is not a
matter of belief or "faith".

What do you think it is then

Don't you need to know what I believe before you ask a question like that?

d***@.

2011-09-19 16:20:54 UTC

WHO IS JESUS?

A fiction

No.

It is not a question of faith in any way.

Goober if you believe God does not exist

Not something I ever claimed.

Post by d***@.
then you have whatever amount of

Post by d***@.
faith that you're correct.

There is no question of my having "faith" that there is no god.

Yes there is Goob. You either have faith that he does not, or you don't.

No, that's false.

LOL!!! Do you think you only "sort of" believe he doesn't exist, Goo?

I never said

I've seen you ridicule people for believing in God Goo. Unless you're
convinced he does not exist, you're being extremely stupid even for you when you
ridicule someone else for believing.

Post by George Plimpton
, Fuckwit. Anyway, what I actually think about it is not a
matter of belief or "faith".

LOL! What do you think it is then Goob? Do you think you "know" the answer
while everyone else is just guessing?

Don't you need to know what I believe before you ask a question like that?

<chortle> No because you can't know either way Goo, and if you don't have a
belief at all that makes you stupid for ridiculing other people for believing.

Even though I don't need to know, it would be good fun if you can explain
what you think you think about it though Goob, so if you think you can explain
then try doing it.

George Plimpton

2011-09-19 13:43:18 UTC

Yes there is. You either have faith that he does not, or you don't.

No, that's false.

LOL!!! Do you think you only "sort of" believe he doesn't exist, Goo?

I never said, Fuckwit.

I've seen you ridicule people for believing in God

You've seen me ridicule people for irrationally believing stuff - you, for example.

Post by George Plimpton
Anyway, what I actually think about it is not a
matter of belief or "faith".

What do you think it is then

Don't you need to know what I believe before you ask a question like that?

No because you can't know either way

So?

d***@.

2011-09-20 18:54:26 UTC

WHO IS JESUS?

A fiction

No.

It is not a question of faith in any way.

Goober if you believe God does not exist

Not something I ever claimed.

Post by d***@.
then you have whatever amount of

Post by d***@.
faith that you're correct.

There is no question of my having "faith" that there is no god.

Yes there is Goob. You either have faith that he does not, or you don't.

No, that's false.

LOL!!! Do you think you only "sort of" believe he doesn't exist, Goo?

I never said

I've seen you ridicule people for believing in God Goo. Unless you're
convinced he does not exist, you're being extremely stupid even for you when you
ridicule someone else for believing.

Post by George Plimpton
, Fuckwit. Anyway, what I actually think about it is not a
matter of belief or "faith".

LOL! What do you think it is then Goob? Do you think you "know" the answer
while everyone else is just guessing?

Don't you need to know what I believe before you ask a question like that?

<chortle> No because you can't know either way Goo, and if you don't have a
belief at all that makes you stupid for ridiculing other people for believing.
Even though I don't need to know, it would be good fun if you can explain
what you think you think about it though Goob, so if you think you can explain
then try doing it.

So?

So it appears that you either don't know what you think about that either
Goob, or you're so ashamed of what you think that you're afraid to say what you
think about that too. You're inept in regards to this subject Goo, just as you
are in regards to the subject of lives of positive value.

George Plimpton

2011-09-14 16:39:11 UTC

every time
you've ever been insulting to someone for believing in God or considering the
possibility of his existence.

I insult people for holding irrational beliefs.

Christopher A. Lee

2011-09-14 16:40:27 UTC

every time
you've ever been insulting to someone for believing in God or considering the
possibility of his existence.

I insult people for holding irrational beliefs.

Dh@ was lying through his teeth yet again - if these loonies had the
commonsense and courtesy to keep it to themselbves it wouldn't be
treated as in-your-face bullshit.

George Plimpton

2011-09-14 17:04:18 UTC

every time
you've ever been insulting to someone for believing in God or considering the
possibility of his existence.

I insult people for holding irrational beliefs.

commonsense and courtesy to keep it to themselbves it wouldn't be
treated as in-your-face bullshit.

Fuckwit David Harrison ('***@.') always lies, and he always comes up with
some weird yarn he's learned somewhere (he never, ever thinks these up
himself) that he then flogs for literally over 12 years. In this case,
it's that atheists have "faith" <chortle> that there is no god. Where I
most know Fuckwit from is alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian, where since
1999 he has been flogging the lame idea that "animal rights activists"
are doing livestock animals a disservice by not wanting any more
livestock animals to exist. He claims that "aras" are "denying" a
benefit to unconceived, unborn "future farm animals" by wanting no more
of them to exist.

Fuckwit did not independently think of this "atheists' 'faith'" angle,
nor the "denying life to livestock" angle. He stumbled onto them and
thought they were neato-keeno rhetorical sticks he could use to beat up
on people with whom he disagrees. They're both massive fails - no
traction at all.

Christopher A. Lee

2011-09-14 17:32:00 UTC

every time
you've ever been insulting to someone for believing in God or considering the
possibility of his existence.

I insult people for holding irrational beliefs.

commonsense and courtesy to keep it to themselbves it wouldn't be
treated as in-your-face bullshit.

some weird yarn he's learned somewhere (he never, ever thinks these up
himself) that he then flogs for literally over 12 years. In this case,
it's that atheists have "faith" <chortle> that there is no god. Where I
most know Fuckwit from is alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian, where since
1999 he has been flogging the lame idea that "animal rights activists"
are doing livestock animals a disservice by not wanting any more
livestock animals to exist. He claims that "aras" are "denying" a
benefit to unconceived, unborn "future farm animals" by wanting no more
of them to exist.

I've only seen him here - apart from alt.atheist where I have now been
for 20 years, I used to be in the assembler language group and am
still in various hobby, rail and British TV groups.

Alt.atheism was set up by atheists for atheists to discuss our own
issues. But ever since it started in 1991 it has been a magnet for
stupid, rude religious loonies who expect the very courtesy they don't
show us and turn into whining, lying hypocrites when they don't get
it.

Post by George Plimpton
Fuckwit did not independently think of this "atheists' 'faith'" angle,
nor the "denying life to livestock" angle. He stumbled onto them and
thought they were neato-keeno rhetorical sticks he could use to beat up
on people with whom he disagrees. They're both massive fails - no
traction at all.

Just like everything they attack us with.

I learned what an atheist was 55 years ago when I was 8 and realised I
was one because my parents hadn't taught me to believe.

This was also the first time I was rudely told what I "really"
believed by somebody who couldn't understand that there is a world
beyond their religion.

Not surprisingly got it wrong because they couldn't understand that
their god meant no more to us than Zeus and all the others did to
them.

Which wouldn't be so bad if they listened, but it goes downhill from
there, with them trying to "prove" we're not telling the truth about
ourselves in a way which tells us plenty about them that isn't very
flattering.

George Plimpton

2011-09-14 18:11:32 UTC

every time
you've ever been insulting to someone for believing in God or considering the
possibility of his existence.

I insult people for holding irrational beliefs.

commonsense and courtesy to keep it to themselbves it wouldn't be
treated as in-your-face bullshit.

some weird yarn he's learned somewhere (he never, ever thinks these up
himself) that he then flogs for literally over 12 years. In this case,
it's that atheists have "faith"<chortle> that there is no god. Where I
most know Fuckwit from is alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian, where since
1999 he has been flogging the lame idea that "animal rights activists"
are doing livestock animals a disservice by not wanting any more
livestock animals to exist. He claims that "aras" are "denying" a
benefit to unconceived, unborn "future farm animals" by wanting no more
of them to exist.

I've only seen him here - apart from alt.atheist where I have now been
for 20 years, I used to be in the assembler language group and am
still in various hobby, rail and British TV groups.
Alt.atheism was set up by atheists for atheists to discuss our own
issues. But ever since it started in 1991 it has been a magnet for
stupid, rude religious loonies who expect the very courtesy they don't
show us and turn into whining, lying hypocrites when they don't get
it.

It's not a bad thing if people come in to challenge the beliefs. People
in a.a.e.v. used to complain about people challenging their belief in
"animal rights", too. I personally wouldn't want to participate in a
group in which the only participants all felt the same way about the
basic issue, particularly if it's controversial or contested in a larger
context. Of course, if the "antis" come in and can't coherently and
cogently challenge the orthodoxy of those who do accept the premise
underlying the newsgroup, that's a problem.

I don't mind saying that a newsgroup for people to discuss the finer
points of atheism doesn't sound too interesting to me. I think it would
amount to the atheist equivalent of how many angels can dance on a
pinpoint. I know that without the antis in a.a.e.v., the discussion
there amounted to nothing more about who was more virtuous for
eliminating micrograms of animal parts from their diet. It was
ridiculous - people bragging about having eliminated, for example, black
olives from their diet because the juice was allegedly colored with
octopus ink.

Just like everything they attack us with.
I learned what an atheist was 55 years ago when I was 8 and realised I
was one because my parents hadn't taught me to believe.

I was brought up in an easy-going religiously observant household, and
when I got older and exposed to science and critical thinking and
determined that religious belief didn't make sense, it was easy drop it.
I do miss church a little, because it was a theologically liberal
denomination that emphasized trying to put Christian principles of
living harmoniously with one's fellow man into practice, rather than an
emphasis on salvation and other such nonsense, and the people were
friendly and non-judgmental. I realize those principles aren't unique
to Christianity by any means, and one can abide by them without
attending church, but it was a cordial social environment and I do miss
it some. Of course, it has more than 35 years since I attended, so I
don't miss it with much intensity.

Watch: it is guaranteed that Fuckwit will come back with more of his
tired, lame, discredited shtick about my having "faith" that there is no
god, when in fact I haven't said what I believe about it. That's a
problem with ideologues generally - they hear and see what they want -
but it's particularly a problem with a stupid, uneducated (high school
dropout), low-wage, knuckle-dragging Southern Baptist ideologue like
Fuckwit.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
This was also the first time I was rudely told what I "really"
believed by somebody who couldn't understand that there is a world
beyond their religion.
Not surprisingly got it wrong because they couldn't understand that
their god meant no more to us than Zeus and all the others did to
them.
Which wouldn't be so bad if they listened, but it goes downhill from
there, with them trying to "prove" we're not telling the truth about
ourselves in a way which tells us plenty about them that isn't very
flattering.

Christopher A. Lee

2011-09-14 19:38:52 UTC

every time
you've ever been insulting to someone for believing in God or considering the
possibility of his existence.

I insult people for holding irrational beliefs.

commonsense and courtesy to keep it to themselbves it wouldn't be
treated as in-your-face bullshit.

some weird yarn he's learned somewhere (he never, ever thinks these up
himself) that he then flogs for literally over 12 years. In this case,
it's that atheists have "faith"<chortle> that there is no god. Where I
most know Fuckwit from is alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian, where since
1999 he has been flogging the lame idea that "animal rights activists"
are doing livestock animals a disservice by not wanting any more
livestock animals to exist. He claims that "aras" are "denying" a
benefit to unconceived, unborn "future farm animals" by wanting no more
of them to exist.

I've only seen him here - apart from alt.atheist where I have now been
for 20 years, I used to be in the assembler language group and am
still in various hobby, rail and British TV groups.
Alt.atheism was set up by atheists for atheists to discuss our own
issues. But ever since it started in 1991 it has been a magnet for
stupid, rude religious loonies who expect the very courtesy they don't
show us and turn into whining, lying hypocrites when they don't get
it.

The putative existence of one of the thousands of gods people have
believed in,isn't an issue for us - and the theists who keep bringing
it up don't get to decide what our issues are.

And there are no beliefs to challenge, outside the imagination of
theists who misrepresent us because they can't think outside the box.

Atheism per se is a non-event but we do have issues including the
behaviour of theists towards us.

From the alt.atheism FAQ that used be posted here regularly. You can
find it on google. It was originally put together by
***@mantis.co.uk and later kept up to date and posted regularly by
Mickey Malkin who is still a regular here.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/e6844d40c8651833?dmode=source

Subject: What is the purpose of this newsgroup?

Typical posting:

Why have a newsgroup about atheism? Why do atheists organize in
groups?
What is there to discuss?

Response:

Many things are discussed here, including:

* Whether it is reasonable to feign theism in order to avoid upsetting
one's family
* Prayer in schools
* Discrimination against atheists
* Sunday trading laws
* The Satanic Child Abuse myth
* Whether one should be an overt atheist or 'stay in the closet'
* How religious societies prey (sic) on new college students
* How to get rid of unwanted proselytizers
* Whether religion is a danger to society and/or the individual
* Why people become atheists

[I'll add things like how/whether to "come out" as an atheist to
theists family, friends and colleagues, how atheists organise weddings
and funerals, what to do about enforced or coercive prayer etc, oaths,
etc]

Of course, inevitably alt.atheism tends to attract evangelical
Christians looking for someone to convert. Most readers of the
newsgroup don't want to be preached to, although a few seem to derive
perverse pleasure from tearing apart particularly ill-considered or
uninformed postings.

Post by George Plimpton
I don't mind saying that a newsgroup for people to discuss the finer
points of atheism doesn't sound too interesting to me.

There are no finer points of atheism to discuss, because all we have
in common is that we aren't theists - and this in incidental or
consequential, unlike the theists' foundational beliefs.

Post by George Plimpton
I think it would
amount to the atheist equivalent of how many angels can dance on a
pinpoint. I know that without the antis in a.a.e.v., the discussion
there amounted to nothing more about who was more virtuous for
eliminating micrograms of animal parts from their diet. It was
ridiculous - people bragging about having eliminated, for example, black
olives from their diet because the juice was allegedly colored with
octopus ink.

That's not what the group is for.

I'll give an example close to home. The Lady In My Life is a devout
Catholic. When I was considering marriage I wanted to discuss the pros
and cons from an atheist perspective but had to take that to private
emails with other regulars here.

If we try to discuss our own issues, eg discrimination in the Boy
Scouts of America we get inundated with bigots trying to justify it
using their ignorant and offensive stereotypes.

If we try to discuss how to deal with creationism we get creationists
trying to justify it with incredibly stupid arguments that only
appeals to the most extreme fundamentalists.

Similarly if we talk even peripherally about ethics, morals etc by
discussing eg a certain religion's part in spreading AIDS in the third
world by its campaign against condoms, some psycho invariable tells us
we have no basis for doing that because without his pretend friend we
have no understanding of good and bad.

Etc.

And that is without the endless stream of loonies who come here to
harass us about things that are nothing to do with atheism.

Just like everything they attack us with.
I learned what an atheist was 55 years ago when I was 8 and realised I
was one because my parents hadn't taught me to believe.

I've never had it to miss it.

I simply treat stupidity, dishonesty and lies as their perpetrators
deserve.

Any Christian who knows he is talking to atheists and presumes his god
as if it were universally granted even though he knows they don't
believe it, is an idiot.

Not just in alt.atheism but also the various hobby groups I'm in. Eg
somebody posted an Easter sermonette to the railway photography group
and I pointed out that it wasn't a Christian group but included people
of other faiths and none. I was initially polite.

Somebody told me I hated God so I treated him as a liar and an idiot
for me.

He and several other regulars went ape-shit.

They seem to think their beliefs exempt them from common sense and
courtesy, and expect everybody else to put up with it.

But I treat them with equivalent rudeness.

Far too many people give them an undeserved free ride for that kind of
nastiness.

Any Christian who invents ad hominem accusations about why we "really"
don't believe, is a liar because he isn't a mind reader, as well as
arrogantly nasty.

And it happens in the real world as well.

I had a Christian pick an argument with me over law. He didn't listen
to any points I made and kept introducing new ones including many of
the standard ad hominems. It's very frustrating to hold any kind of
conversation witth them and I try to avoid it.

He asked me why I was so hostile to Christians. I said I wasn't, just
to obnoxious lying jerks. He had to be restrained from throwing a
punch at me.

Post by George Plimpton
Watch: it is guaranteed that Fuckwit will come back with more of his
tired, lame, discredited shtick about my having "faith" that there is no
god, when in fact I haven't said what I believe about it. That's a
problem with ideologues generally - they hear and see what they want -
but it's particularly a problem with a stupid, uneducated (high school
dropout), low-wage, knuckle-dragging Southern Baptist ideologue like
Fuckwit.

Just treat him as the liar and idiot he tells us he is.

He's mentally ill. If weren't so obnoxious I might have pity for him
but I don't.

One of these days he's going to completely flip. I just hope he
doesn't take anybody else down with him.

George Plimpton

2011-09-14 21:47:23 UTC

Post by Christopher A. Lee
[...]
If we try to discuss our own issues, eg discrimination in the Boy
Scouts of America we get inundated with bigots trying to justify it
using their ignorant and offensive stereotypes.

Sorry, I'm with the Scouts on that. Freedom of association trumps
anything else. It's a private organization, and if they have it as a
fundamental tenet that one must profess a belief in god or whatever,
that's their business. I was reluctant to let my son join Cub Scouts
because I didn't want to have to lie about having religious faith. In
the event, it wasn't really enforced there, and we were in it until he
grew bored with it and left. If they had decided to make an issue of it
and require some profession of faith, I would have explained to my son
that we were not able to join because they only wanted like-minded
people in their organization, and it is their right to require that.

Christopher A. Lee

2011-09-14 22:44:45 UTC

They used to turn a blind eye in many places - until they started to
enforce it after religious loonies got control of it.

Post by George Plimpton
If they had decided to make an issue of it
and require some profession of faith, I would have explained to my son
that we were not able to join because they only wanted like-minded
people in their organization, and it is their right to require that.

I'm not with the bigoted nastiness they use to tell us and our kids
why atheists can't have the morality or ethics to be scouts - when
it's a case of either lie to get in or be honest and get kicked out.

Nor am I with their whining hypocrisy when they are denied free or
reduced price use of publicly owned facilities, demand to distribute
their flyers in public schools etc..

Basically they want it both ways - the public money they used to get,
and their discrimination. Unfortunately they still get both in too
many jurisdictions.

The official scout line is that it's open to all boys, and that
atheist kids exclude themselves by not having the moral or patriotic
values require.

Which is grossly offensive.

I had a colleague who once asked me why I bought his daughter's girl
scout cookies but not his son's boy scout fundraisers.

So I told him why as an atheist I couldn't support an organisation
that discriminated against us - and he launched into a pretty nasty
tirade about why atheist kids were unfit to be scouts.

It was as if he had forgotten he was talking to a real live atheist
who might find his bigoted slurs offensive.

It's a long time since I've seen their flyers. At the time they didn't
mention the religious requirement and it wasn't generally known that
they kicked atheist, Buddhist and Unitarian kids out.

Kids want to do fun things with their friends. And the scouts are
presented as doing fun things together. "But we don't want your kind".

George Plimpton

2011-09-14 23:36:25 UTC

They used to turn a blind eye in many places - until they started to
enforce it after religious loonies got control of it.

In fact, during the period my son was in Cub Scouts, it was barely
mentioned, and the school that was the sponsor of his Cub Scout pack is
affiliated loosely with a church.

If you don't agree with their philosophy, you shouldn't join or attempt
to join.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
Nor am I with their whining hypocrisy when they are denied free or
reduced price use of publicly owned facilities, demand to distribute
their flyers in public schools etc..

Leftist atheists don't have any problem with all kinds of other
organizations that have even more objectionable and exclusionary views
getting free or subsidized facilities use.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
Basically they want it both ways - the public money they used to get,
and their discrimination. Unfortunately they still get both in too
many jurisdictions.

Their discrimination is their right. The only reason it's a publicly
visible issue at all is because of who the objects of their
discrimination are: queers and atheists, both groups darlings of the
political left and the mainstream media.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
The official scout line is that it's open to all boys, and that
atheist kids exclude themselves by not having the moral or patriotic
values require.
Which is grossly offensive.

Too bad. You or your kids don't have a right to join.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
I had a colleague who once asked me why I bought his daughter's girl
scout cookies but not his son's boy scout fundraisers.
So I told him why as an atheist I couldn't support an organisation
that discriminated against us - and he launched into a pretty nasty
tirade about why atheist kids were unfit to be scouts.

If they are unwilling to accept the tenets of the orgainzation - *all*
of them - then they *are* unfit. It's not that there's anything morally
wrong with atheists, at least as I see it - rather, the issue is they
don't have to accept you if you don't subscribe to the tenets. It is
perfectly reasonable for them to demand 100% compliance.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
It was as if he had forgotten he was talking to a real live atheist
who might find his bigoted slurs offensive.
It's a long time since I've seen their flyers. At the time they didn't
mention the religious requirement and it wasn't generally known that
they kicked atheist, Buddhist and Unitarian kids out.

They don't exclude Buddhist and Unitarian kids.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
Kids want to do fun things with their friends. And the scouts are
presented as doing fun things together. "But we don't want your kind".

Freedom of association means they don't have to accept any and all comers.

Christopher A. Lee

2011-09-14 23:55:39 UTC

They used to turn a blind eye in many places - until they started to
enforce it after religious loonies got control of it.

In fact, during the period my son was in Cub Scouts, it was barely
mentioned, and the school that was the sponsor of his Cub Scout pack is
affiliated loosely with a church.

And if you don't agree with a whites only golf course you shouldn't
join.

If you don't agree with their philosophy, you shouldn't join or attempt
to join.

I'm still not with the bigoted nastiness they use to "justify" it.

Leftist atheists don't have any problem with all kinds of other
organizations that have even more objectionable and exclusionary views
getting free or subsidized facilities use.

Bullshit.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
Basically they want it both ways - the public money they used to get,
and their discrimination. Unfortunately they still get both in too
many jurisdictions.

No, liar, they have lost lawsuits over using public facilities and
support because the government cannot support discriminatory
organisations.

Too bad. You or your kids don't have a right to join.

Butt we have a right to object to the bigoted nastiness they use to
"justify" their discrimination.

And we have the right to object when public facilities, money etc are
used to support an organisation that discriminates against minorities.

Do you honestly have difficulty reading for comprehension?

If they are unwilling to accept the tenets of the orgainzation - *all*
of them - then they *are* unfit.

Only in theior and your bigoted imagination.

What part of "HE TRIED TO JUSTIFY IST USING BIGOTED NASTYINESS TO THE
VERY PEOPLE HE WAS BIGOTED AGAINST are you pretending you don't
understand?

Post by George Plimpton
It's not that there's anything morally
wrong with atheists, at least as I see it - rather, the issue is they
don't have to accept you if you don't subscribe to the tenets. It is
perfectly reasonable for them to demand 100% compliance.

Tenets which until recently theyu kept quiet about until the atheist
child tried to join to be withhis friends after reccruiiting campaigns
in public schools which didn't mention it.

Can't you read?

Post by Christopher A. Lee
It was as if he had forgotten he was talking to a real live atheist
who might find his bigoted slurs offensive.

You don't find this offencive?

Post by Christopher A. Lee
It's a long time since I've seen their flyers. At the time they didn't
mention the religious requirement and it wasn't generally known that
they kicked atheist, Buddhist and Unitarian kids out.

They don't exclude Buddhist and Unitarian kids.

When did this change?

Do they accept Buddhists and Unitarians who can't pledge an oath to a
god they don't believe in?

Post by Christopher A. Lee
Kids want to do fun things with their friends. And the scouts are
presented as doing fun things together. "But we don't want your kind".

Freedom of association means they don't have to accept any and all comers.

Just like white only golf clubs.

George Plimpton

2011-09-15 00:05:53 UTC

They used to turn a blind eye in many places - until they started to
enforce it after religious loonies got control of it.

In fact, during the period my son was in Cub Scouts, it was barely
mentioned, and the school that was the sponsor of his Cub Scout pack is
affiliated loosely with a church.

And if you don't agree with a whites only golf course you shouldn't
join.

True.

People only have equal rights under the law with respect to the government.

If you don't agree with their philosophy, you shouldn't join or attempt
to join.

I'm still not with the bigoted nastiness they use to "justify" it.

I don't see it as bigotry.

Leftist atheists don't have any problem with all kinds of other
organizations that have even more objectionable and exclusionary views
getting free or subsidized facilities use.

Bullshit.

Nope. Every exclusionary HAM (historically aggrieved minority) group
that wants an on-campus room for its club meetings gets one, and leftist
atheists don't say a word.

Face it: you really don't care about the free or subsidized public
facilities used by the BSA; that's just the wedge to try to gain
standing to beat them over the head. The real reason is *your*
intolerance, and your hatred of them for a particular value they espouse.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
Basically they want it both ways - the public money they used to get,
and their discrimination. Unfortunately they still get both in too
many jurisdictions.

No, liar, they have lost lawsuits over using public facilities and
support because the government cannot support discriminatory
organisations.

The government supports discriminatory organizations all the time.

Too bad. You or your kids don't have a right to join.

Butt we have a right to object to the bigoted nastiness they use to
"justify" their discrimination.

It isn't the alleged "bigoted nastiness" to which you object; it's the
fact that your beliefs are disparaged.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
And we have the right to object when public facilities, money etc are
used to support an organisation that discriminates against minorities.

As I said, that's just the desperate search for a wedge to try to gain
standing. You don't really care about the use of public facilities;
it's the value being espoused that chaps you, and your intolerance won't
let you ignore it.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
Do you honestly have difficulty reading for comprehension?

No.

If they are unwilling to accept the tenets of the organization - *all*
of them - then they *are* unfit.

Only in theior and your bigoted imagination.

Nope. They have a right to admit whom they want, according to any
criteria they want to use.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
What part of "HE TRIED TO JUSTIFY IST USING BIGOTED NASTYINESS TO THE
VERY PEOPLE HE WAS BIGOTED AGAINST are you pretending you don't
understand?

You flog this dead "bigoted nastiness" horse too hard. There's nothing
left in it.

Tenets which until recently theyu kept quiet about until the atheist
child tried to join to be withhis friends after reccruiiting campaigns
in public schools which didn't mention it.

So?

Post by Christopher A. Lee
Can't you read?

Post by Christopher A. Lee
It was as if he had forgotten he was talking to a real live atheist
who might find his bigoted slurs offensive.

You don't find this offencive?

I think I find you not credible, and giving evidence of a huge chip on
your shoulder, not to mention *your* sanctimonious stance.

They don't exclude Buddhist and Unitarian kids.

When did this change?

Never - they always didn't exclude them.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
Do they accept Buddhists and Unitarians who can't pledge an oath to a
god they don't believe in?

Those kids need to be willing, if asked, to make some statement of
belief. You really ought to do more research before running your own
intolerant yap.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
Kids want to do fun things with their friends. And the scouts are
presented as doing fun things together. "But we don't want your kind".

Freedom of association means they don't have to accept any and all comers.

Just like white only golf clubs.

Maybe. I wouldn't want to be a member of one, but I support the right
of such clubs to exist. Freedom of association is important.

Christopher A. Lee

2011-09-15 02:09:26 UTC

They used to turn a blind eye in many places - until they started to
enforce it after religious loonies got control of it.

In fact, during the period my son was in Cub Scouts, it was barely
mentioned, and the school that was the sponsor of his Cub Scout pack is
affiliated loosely with a church.

And if you don't agree with a whites only golf course you shouldn't
join.

True.
People only have equal rights under the law with respect to the government.

There are plenty of exceptions - like the golf club I mentioned.
Another is you can't discriminate when you sell your house or rent out
an apartment.

If you don't agree with their philosophy, you shouldn't join or attempt
to join.

I'm still not with the bigoted nastiness they use to "justify" it.

I don't see it as bigotry.

Not even when they use bigoted stereotypes to "justify" it?

Leftist atheists don't have any problem with all kinds of other
organizations that have even more objectionable and exclusionary views
getting free or subsidized facilities use.

Bullshit.

Nope. Every exclusionary HAM (historically aggrieved minority) group
that wants an on-campus room for its club meetings gets one, and leftist
atheists don't say a word.

More of the same bullshit.

Here's a clue, you obviously need it..,

The lawsuits are to make government and the BSA obey the law - the BSA
were given the choice of continuing to get public financial and other
support, or to continue discriminating against minrities.

They chose the latter and blame atheists and others because they are
no longer eligible for public support.

Post by George Plimpton
Face it: you really don't care about the free or subsidized public
facilities used by the BSA; that's just the wedge to try to gain
standing to beat them over the head. The real reason is *your*
intolerance, and your hatred of them for a particular value they espouse.

Face it, you're lying because you can't admit people can have honest
reasons for objecting.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
Basically they want it both ways - the public money they used to get,
and their discrimination. Unfortunately they still get both in too
many jurisdictions.

No, liar, they have lost lawsuits over using public facilities and
support because the government cannot support discriminatory
organisations.

The government supports discriminatory organizations all the time.

And it has lost lawsuits over its support for the BSA.

But in any case, how does an invalid "tu quoque" make it right.

As well as ironic - if they lie thay are considered to have the moral
values but if they're honest they don't.

Post by George Plimpton
Too bad. You or your kids don't have a right to join.

But we have a right to object to the bigoted nastiness they use to
"justify" their discrimination.

It isn't the alleged "bigoted nastiness" to which you object; it's the
fact that your beliefs are disparaged.

Why do you feel the need to keep lying about me, to my face?

And what "beliefs" are you also lying about?

Post by Christopher A. Lee
And we have the right to object when public facilities, money etc are
used to support an organisation that discriminates against minorities.

Do you really think this kind of personal lie improves whatever case
you are trying to make?

Post by Christopher A. Lee
Do you honestly have difficulty reading for comprehension?

No.

Obviously you do.

Otherwise you would address my points instead of resorting to straw
men and ad hominems.

If they are unwilling to accept the tenets of the organization - *all*
of them - then they *are* unfit.

Only in theior and your bigoted imagination.

Nope. They have a right to admit whom they want, according to any
criteria they want to use.

Learn to read for comprehension:

1. If they discriminate against minorities they are no longer eligible
for public funding and other support. But they want it both ways.

Which word didn't you understand?

2. My colleague used personal slurs about atheists TO MY FACE when I
explained why I could not support the scouts - the same bigoted
falsehoods about atheists the BSA uses to justify excluding atheist
kids.

Which is nothing whatsoever to do with their right to exclude them
as long as they don't receive public funds either directly or
indirectly.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
What part of "HE TRIED TO JUSTIFY IST USING BIGOTED NASTYINESS TO THE
VERY PEOPLE HE WAS BIGOTED AGAINST are you pretending you don't
understand?

You flog this dead "bigoted nastiness" horse too hard. There's nothing
left in it.

That's one of the problems, imbecile.

Tenets which until recently theyu kept quiet about until the atheist
child tried to join to be withhis friends after reccruiiting campaigns
in public schools which didn't mention it.

So?

You think that's honest?

It's one of the reasons they are no longer allowed to recruit in
schools - although they get away with it some redneck places.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
Can't you read?

Post by Christopher A. Lee
It was as if he had forgotten he was talking to a real live atheist
who might find his bigoted slurs offensive.

You don't find this offencive?

I think I find you not credible, and giving evidence of a huge chip on
your shoulder, not to mention *your* sanctimonious stance.

I know you are resorting to amateur-psychologised lies instead of
addressing the points.

They don't exclude Buddhist and Unitarian kids.

When did this change?

Never - they always didn't exclude them.

Unless they were unable to pledge an oath to a god they didn't believe
in.

Why is this so difficult to understand?

Post by Christopher A. Lee
Do they accept Buddhists and Unitarians who can't pledge an oath to a
god they don't believe in?

Those kids need to be willing, if asked, to make some statement of
belief. You really ought to do more research before running your own
intolerant yap.

So they have to lie if they want to be scouts.

Thank you for making my point for me.

You really ought to think before opening your own stupid, intolerant
yap.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
Kids want to do fun things with their friends. And the scouts are
presented as doing fun things together. "But we don't want your kind".

Freedom of association means they don't have to accept any and all comers.

Just like white only golf clubs.

Maybe. I wouldn't want to be a member of one, but I support the right
of such clubs to exist. Freedom of association is important.

So why were they made illegal a long time ago?

George Plimpton

2011-09-15 04:48:58 UTC

They used to turn a blind eye in many places - until they started to
enforce it after religious loonies got control of it.

In fact, during the period my son was in Cub Scouts, it was barely
mentioned, and the school that was the sponsor of his Cub Scout pack is
affiliated loosely with a church.

And if you don't agree with a whites only golf course you shouldn't
join.

True.
People only have equal rights under the law with respect to the government.

There are plenty of exceptions - like the golf club I mentioned.
Another is you can't discriminate when you sell your house or rent out
an apartment.

You should be allowed to do so. People who don't generally will make
more money.

I'm perfectly free to discriminate on the basis of race in choosing a
spouse, and the overwhelming majority of people who marry do exactly
that. Why shouldn't I also be free to discriminate on that basis when I
sell a house or rent an apartment?

If you don't agree with their philosophy, you shouldn't join or attempt
to join.

I'm still not with the bigoted nastiness they use to "justify" it.

I don't see it as bigotry.

Not even when they use bigoted stereotypes to "justify" it?

I don't believe they do. I think you've fabricated an extravagantly
complicated victimhood for yourself.

Leftist atheists don't have any problem with all kinds of other
organizations that have even more objectionable and exclusionary views
getting free or subsidized facilities use.

Bullshit.

Nope. Every exclusionary HAM (historically aggrieved minority) group
that wants an on-campus room for its club meetings gets one, and leftist
atheists don't say a word.

More of the same bullshit.

Nope.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
The lawsuits

What lawsuits? Name them.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
are to make government and the BSA obey the law - the BSA
were given the choice of continuing to get public financial and other
support, or to continue discriminating against minrities.
They chose the latter and blame atheists and others because they are
no longer eligible for public support.

Face it, you're lying because

I'm not lying.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
Basically they want it both ways - the public money they used to get,
and their discrimination. Unfortunately they still get both in too
many jurisdictions.

No, liar, they have lost lawsuits over using public facilities and
support because the government cannot support discriminatory
organisations.

The government supports discriminatory organizations all the time.

And it has lost lawsuits over its support for the BSA.

Cite them. I think you're bullshitting.

Post by George Plimpton
Too bad. You or your kids don't have a right to join.

But we have a right to object to the bigoted nastiness they use to
"justify" their discrimination.

It isn't the alleged "bigoted nastiness" to which you object; it's the
fact that your beliefs are disparaged.

Why do you feel the need to keep lying about me, to my face?

I'm not lying.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
And what "beliefs" are you also lying about?

Your atheism.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
And we have the right to object when public facilities, money etc are
used to support an organisation that discriminates against minorities.

Do you really think this kind of personal lie improves whatever case
you are trying to make?

I'm not lying.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
Do you honestly have difficulty reading for comprehension?

No.

Obviously you do.

No, I don't.

Christopher A. Lee

2011-09-15 04:50:23 UTC

Post by Christopher A. Lee
I'm still not with the bigoted nastiness they use to "justify" it.

I don't see it as bigotry.

Not even when they use bigoted stereotypes to "justify" it?

I don't believe they do. I think you've fabricated an extravagantly
complicated victimhood for yourself.

I know you're lying.

What's wrong with you, apart from being a complete jerk?

George Plimpton

2011-09-15 07:10:45 UTC

Post by Christopher A. Lee
I'm still not with the bigoted nastiness they use to "justify" it.

I don't see it as bigotry.

Not even when they use bigoted stereotypes to "justify" it?

I don't believe they do. I think you've fabricated an extravagantly
complicated victimhood for yourself.

I know you're lying.

I'm not lying.

You are obviously a "type". You're a self-created victim who then
whines non-stop about the injustice of being victimized. But there's no
injustice at all. You set yourself up for it.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
What's wrong with you, apart from being a complete jerk?

Nothing, and I'm not.

Yap

2011-09-15 08:08:01 UTC

They used to turn a blind eye in many places - until they started to
enforce it after religious loonies got control of it.

In fact, during the period my son was in Cub Scouts, it was barely
mentioned, and the school that was the sponsor of his Cub Scout pack is
affiliated loosely with a church.

And if you don't agree with a whites only golf course you shouldn't
join.

True.
People only have equal rights under the law with respect to the government.

There are plenty of exceptions - like the golf club I mentioned.
Another is you can't discriminate when you sell your house or rent out
an apartment.

You should be allowed to do so. People who don't generally will make
more money.
I'm perfectly free to discriminate on the basis of race in choosing a
spouse, and the overwhelming majority of people who marry do exactly
that. Why shouldn't I also be free to discriminate on that basis when I
sell a house or rent an apartment?

In choosing a spouse, it is a personal choice.
But in selling a house, you are selling to people in the public....it
is not personal that you have to put up with for a long time as in the
case of choosing a wife.
If you discriminate, it means you are a bigot.

If they had decided to make an issue of it
and require some profession of faith, I would have explained to my son
that we were not able to join because they only wanted like-minded
people in their organization, and it is their right to require that.

If you don't agree with their philosophy, you shouldn't join or attempt
to join.

I'm still not with the bigoted nastiness they use to "justify" it.

I don't see it as bigotry.

Not even when they use bigoted stereotypes to "justify" it?

I don't believe they do. I think you've fabricated an extravagantly
complicated victimhood for yourself.

What victimhood that you do not know that scout activities are for?
Is their activities something to do with religion?

Leftist atheists don't have any problem with all kinds of other
organizations that have even more objectionable and exclusionary views
getting free or subsidized facilities use.

Bullshit.

Nope. Every exclusionary HAM (historically aggrieved minority) group
that wants an on-campus room for its club meetings gets one, and leftist
atheists don't say a word.

More of the same bullshit.

Nope.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
The lawsuits

What lawsuits? Name them.

Face it, you're lying because

I'm not lying.

Why we don't believe you?

Post by Christopher A. Lee
Basically they want it both ways - the public money they used to get,
and their discrimination. Unfortunately they still get both in too
many jurisdictions.

No, liar, they have lost lawsuits over using public facilities and
support because the government cannot support discriminatory
organisations.

The government supports discriminatory organizations all the time.

And it has lost lawsuits over its support for the BSA.

Cite them. I think you're bullshitting.

The government is under the law not to support discriminatory
organization.

Post by George Plimpton
Too bad. You or your kids don't have a right to join.

But we have a right to object to the bigoted nastiness they use to
"justify" their discrimination.

It isn't the alleged "bigoted nastiness" to which you object; it's the
fact that your beliefs are disparaged.

Why do you feel the need to keep lying about me, to my face?

I'm not lying.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
And what "beliefs" are you also lying about?

Your atheism.

This is lying, atheism is a belief?

Post by Christopher A. Lee
And we have the right to object when public facilities, money etc are
used to support an organisation that discriminates against minorities.

Do you really think this kind of personal lie improves whatever case
you are trying to make?

I'm not lying.

Yes, you do.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
Do you honestly have difficulty reading for comprehension?

No.

Obviously you do.

No, I don't.

Then you are doing it for a purpose?

BruceS

2011-09-15 15:02:14 UTC

<snip>

Post by Christopher A. Lee
And if you don't agree with a whites only golf course you shouldn't
join.

True.
People only have equal rights under the law with respect to the government.

<snip>

Based on your comments re selling a home, I think I already know the
answer, but I'll ask anyway. Does this philosophy extend to
employment, where the employer is not part of the State or directly a
vendor to the State? IOW, do you believe that a private enterprise
should be allowed to discriminate on the basis of age, sex, race,
religion, physical or mental disability, etc.? Should the old signs
"Workers Wanted: Irish Need Not Apply" be allowed back?

George Plimpton

2011-09-15 15:19:30 UTC

Post by BruceS
<snip>

Post by Christopher A. Lee
And if you don't agree with a whites only golf course you shouldn't
join.

True.
People only have equal rights under the law with respect to the government.

<snip>
Based on your comments re selling a home, I think I already know the
answer, but I'll ask anyway. Does this philosophy extend to
employment, where the employer is not part of the State or directly a
vendor to the State? IOW, do you believe that a private enterprise
should be allowed to discriminate on the basis of age, sex, race,
religion, physical or mental disability, etc.? Should the old signs
"Workers Wanted: Irish Need Not Apply" be allowed back?

Yes.

BruceS

2011-09-15 17:06:28 UTC

Post by BruceS
<snip>

Post by Christopher A. Lee
And if you don't agree with a whites only golf course you shouldn't
join.

True.
People only have equal rights under the law with respect to the government.

<snip>
Based on your comments re selling a home, I think I already know the
answer, but I'll ask anyway. Does this philosophy extend to
employment, where the employer is not part of the State or directly a
vendor to the State? IOW, do you believe that a private enterprise
should be allowed to discriminate on the basis of age, sex, race,
religion, physical or mental disability, etc.? Should the old signs
"Workers Wanted: Irish Need Not Apply" be allowed back?

Yes.

Thank you for your candid answer. You can expect a lot of negative
responses to it (including some claiming you don't really believe it),
but I for one appreciate your honesty. I'm a bit ambivalent about
that degree of freedom. If it were allowed, I'd certainly avoid doing
business in such places, but I could say the same for restaurants that
allow smoking. We have a state law banning them. While I like to eat
without the stink of tobacco smoke, I opposed this infringement on the
rights of restaurant owners and their patrons. Not that I'm equating
"No Dogs Or Irish" with "Smoker Friendly". That would be rather a
stretch.

George Plimpton

2011-09-15 17:20:13 UTC

Post by BruceS

Post by BruceS
<snip>

Post by Christopher A. Lee
And if you don't agree with a whites only golf course you shouldn't
join.

True.
People only have equal rights under the law with respect to the government.

<snip>
Based on your comments re selling a home, I think I already know the
answer, but I'll ask anyway. Does this philosophy extend to
employment, where the employer is not part of the State or directly a
vendor to the State? IOW, do you believe that a private enterprise
should be allowed to discriminate on the basis of age, sex, race,
religion, physical or mental disability, etc.? Should the old signs
"Workers Wanted: Irish Need Not Apply" be allowed back?

Yes.

I don't think I'd avoid doing business in such places across the board,
but I certainly wouldn't conduct my own business that way. I truly
believe that a firm that discriminates on that basis generally will be
less profitable, but I believe it should be their right to discriminate
in that way.

Good on you for your view of laws banning smoking. In terms of the
customers, I've long thought they should be informed and then make their
choice. If they don't like the restaurant's smoking policy, they
shouldn't eat there. I confess to seeing it being a little more
problematic with the employees who may have to work in the smoky
environment, but not much. If you don't like the working conditions,
quit and find another job. People do that all the time. I just left a
job I had for close to five years last November because I didn't like
some aspects of the working conditions that were growing worse.

Merlin

2011-09-15 19:01:50 UTC

Dear All,

The world you describe was very real for many people in the US up
through most of the 1960's.
There were separate entrances and seating at the movies, separate
waiting rooms at airports and train stations
and restricted seating in restaurants and on buses over parts of these
United States.

The boycotts of the 60's helped to bring down the economies of whole
communities we see shattered today,
and the hatred engendered by the policies has stripped much of the
small town south as we witness
today the social consequences of discrimination in education through
much of the poverty stricken
south. Look at the collapse of many small towns from the Carolinas to
Louisiana. Look at the poverty
rates and the health crisis in many of these areas, that came from
deliberately under educating
a selected part of the population to keep them from threatening the
jobs of the majority at the time.

It is great to talk hypothetically about discrimination, it is harder
to look at what it brings.

None of you ever seem to have been refused service at a restaurant,
None of you ever seem to have been told to go to the back of the bus.
or sit in an obviously poorer designed and less comfortable part of an
airport or bus station.
and none of you seem to have been refused to be allowed to go to the
schools of your choice.

These are real situations being described here, an intelligent and
smart man could not gain
the education his mind deserved, and ended up being the best
maintenance worker merlin ever met,
and inspiration for us all.

yet here you sit calling each other names, and ridicule those who
don't understand life and freedom as you do.
Merlin says good for you, that in this economy you can get another
job. good for you that housing is cheap
for you and you can live anywhere you choose, good for you that you
aren't sent to another hospital cause you are
the wrong color, the wrong creed, the wrong something and can't get
in........ Or why we need to have a job to get health insurance too?

That makes you proud? Ya'll sound like tea baggers, and seem to being
saying, 'i got mine screw the rest of the world'
That doesn't seem the America most of us grew up in, where barn
raisings, and community work are the way America got
where we are. The whole working to give the rest a leg up. Be it in
the investment of electricity for rural America in the 30's or the
internet today.

Then we see the confusion of over religion.
Who and what is god? And everyone talking about belief and no one
talking about experience with god.
Merlin understands those that never met god, and accepts those among
us that have their
reason. Merlin understands those that believe god, as that is the
very first child like steps to take towards
an experience with god. Merlin does not understand how so few up us
has met god.

Knowing God is a personal experience. It isn't transferable, It may
not always be private. It is from our intent.
and when our intention is to love, we can find god for real. By
loving so hard it hurts, that we may find where within
each of us our god dwells. It is different for many of us and that is
part of life......... Tho it may lend a sense of confusion to anyone
person's ministry to know a doubter or unbeliever, they are as real as
the believer and as much in the dark (for lack of a better word) for
not really knowing god while witnessing for god. for we do not always
witness the same thing while watching the same event, and to not allow
differing opinions while discussing faith or a seeming lack of faith.
We all fit the puzzle of the duality of this world.

God is patient, prerhistoric man has been on the planet for almost 3
million years, starting possibly with the freshly discovered bones of
Lucy. God can wait a little longer for anyone that choses to wait
till they now and do not want to believe at the moment. So too those
with faith may want to learn god's patience and love everyone as all
religions teach us 'just was we are' ........ until such time they
too discover god or any of us a prove wrong or right. That is true
freedom, to see the freedom of choices for everyone.

It is all about love. That is what Ghandi taught a 100 years ago,
Jesus taught 2000 years ago and what Krishna taught over 5000 years
ago. Love everyone, respecting everyone. Love changes minds, Love
changes behavior, Love changes our personal lives when we choose. it
isn't about labels it is about the choices we make. To be generous or
self protecting. it is about our personal actions toward and with
each other that builds a future of gain or pain for ourselves and our
neighbors. And that is the choice America faces today.

in love with the living loving gay jesus,

merlin

Post by BruceS
<snip>

Post by Christopher A. Lee
And if you don't agree with a whites only golf course you shouldn't
join.

True.
People only have equal rights under the law with respect to the government.

<snip>
Based on your comments re selling a home, I think I already know the
answer, but I'll ask anyway. Does this philosophy extend to
employment, where the employer is not part of the State or directly a
vendor to the State? IOW, do you believe that a private enterprise
should be allowed to discriminate on the basis of age, sex, race,
religion, physical or mental disability, etc.? Should the old signs
"Workers Wanted: Irish Need Not Apply" be allowed back?

Yes.

I don't think I'd avoid doing business in such places across the board,
but I certainly wouldn't conduct my own business that way. I truly
believe that a firm that discriminates on that basis generally will be
less profitable, but I believe it should be their right to discriminate
in that way.
Good on you for your view of laws banning smoking. In terms of the
customers, I've long thought they should be informed and then make their
choice. If they don't like the restaurant's smoking policy, they
shouldn't eat there. I confess to seeing it being a little more
problematic with the employees who may have to work in the smoky
environment, but not much. If you don't like the working conditions,
quit and find another job. People do that all the time. I just left a
job I had for close to five years last November because I didn't like
some aspects of the working conditions that were growing worse.

Dakota

2011-09-15 00:45:24 UTC

They used to turn a blind eye in many places - until they started to
enforce it after religious loonies got control of it.

In fact, during the period my son was in Cub Scouts, it was barely
mentioned, and the school that was the sponsor of his Cub Scout pack is
affiliated loosely with a church.

If you don't agree with their philosophy, you shouldn't join or attempt
to join.

Leftist atheists don't have any problem with all kinds of other
organizations that have even more objectionable and exclusionary views
getting free or subsidized facilities use.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
Basically they want it both ways - the public money they used to get,
and their discrimination. Unfortunately they still get both in too
many jurisdictions.

Too bad. You or your kids don't have a right to join.

They don't exclude Buddhist and Unitarian kids.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
Kids want to do fun things with their friends. And the scouts are
presented as doing fun things together. "But we don't want your kind".

Freedom of association means they don't have to accept any and all comers.

I agree that the Boy Scouts of America has a right to discriminate on
the basis of religion but, by doing so, they forfeit any right to
government support for their bigoted activities.

Christopher A. Lee

2011-09-15 02:20:42 UTC

Post by Dakota

They used to turn a blind eye in many places - until they started to
enforce it after religious loonies got control of it.

In fact, during the period my son was in Cub Scouts, it was barely
mentioned, and the school that was the sponsor of his Cub Scout pack is
affiliated loosely with a church.

If you don't agree with their philosophy, you shouldn't join or attempt
to join.

Leftist atheists don't have any problem with all kinds of other
organizations that have even more objectionable and exclusionary views
getting free or subsidized facilities use.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
Basically they want it both ways - the public money they used to get,
and their discrimination. Unfortunately they still get both in too
many jurisdictions.

Too bad. You or your kids don't have a right to join.

They don't exclude Buddhist and Unitarian kids.

Unless they are unable to pledge an oath on a god they don't believe
in.

This guy's as bad as Stanley Krieger (do a google search for him in
alt.atheism).

Post by Dakota

Post by Christopher A. Lee
Kids want to do fun things with their friends. And the scouts are
presented as doing fun things together. "But we don't want your kind".

Freedom of association means they don't have to accept any and all comers.

I agree that the Boy Scouts of America has a right to discriminate on
the basis of religion but, by doing so, they forfeit any right to
government support for their bigoted activities.

The trouble is that they want both.

In Oakland the Sea Scouts had their use of city facilities on very
advantageous terms, withdrawn.

Their press releases blamed atheists accusing _them_ of preventing
innocent kids doing the fun things they join the scouts for.and
inventing all sorts of falsehoods about "why" they did this.

If anybody does this, it is the scouts by excluding atheists and
others.

This is peculiar to the hyper-religious USA of A - most other national
scouting organisations allow local versions of the oath.

When I was a boy in England my parents found a troop that was mostly
immigrant kids that left out the God bit.

Perhaps it wouldn't be so bad if they didn't try to justify their
discrimination using bigoted falsehoods about atheists.

Which is a completely separate issue than their getting public funding
and other support.

Yap

2011-09-15 07:50:29 UTC

Why has scout activities got to do with sky pixie or faith?
On the contrary, I see scouts are into "light" survival skills and
training ground, rather than into territory associated with religion.
Is US Boy Scouts any different from all other countries?

d***@.

2011-09-15 22:38:54 UTC

every time
you've ever been insulting to someone for believing in God or considering the
possibility of his existence.

I insult people for holding irrational beliefs.

commonsense and courtesy to keep it to themselbves it wouldn't be
treated as in-your-face bullshit.

I point out that they want to prevent such animals from living even if their
lives would have been of positive value to the animals. They/you can't
appreciate lives of positive value for livestock, and in your case for any
creature that has ever lived.

Post by George Plimpton
by wanting no more of them to exist.

They want them to not exist. AW advocates want them to live lives of
positive value. Since no one can eat millions of animals, we who can appreciate
their lives can do so for animals we don't consume as well as those that we do.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
I've only seen him here - apart from alt.atheist where I have now been
for 20 years, I used to be in the assembler language group and am
still in various hobby, rail and British TV groups.
Alt.atheism was set up by atheists for atheists to discuss our own
issues.

I'm a weak agnostic since I don't have a true belief regarding existence,
but if Jesus does exist and did what we're told he did I'm thankful to him and
would like him to be my Lord. Not your guy, if he exists, but Jesus.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
But ever since it started in 1991 it has been a magnet for
stupid, rude religious loonies who expect the very courtesy they don't
show us and turn into whining, lying hypocrites when they don't get
it.

I never bitch about being shit on afaik. I do bitch about Goo lying to me,
and about me, but not really about how I get treated. Being treated shitty makes
it easy not to be more of an ass than the other guy :-) For example there's no
way I could be too rude to Goo, and telling you that he's the most dishonest
person I've ever encountered is just passing along information.

They are both aspects of situations that some people are opposed to thinking
about Goob, but they're both significant. I point them out because they are, and
other people try to refute them but can't because they're facts.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
Just like everything they attack us with.

Pointing out that your faith is no better than anyone else's isn't an attack
on you. It's pointing out that you're not superior as you appear to believe you
are, just because of what you put your own faith in.

Like what?

Post by Christopher A. Lee
by somebody who couldn't understand that there is a world
beyond their religion.
Not surprisingly got it wrong because they couldn't understand that
their god meant no more to us than Zeus and all the others did to
them.

That's because you've never learned to consider the possibility in a
realistic way. If you could you would, but you can't so you can't. At least I
doubt that you'd mentally be capable if you tried. Maybe you could, but by this
time probably not. How about on another planet? Could you think about it
realistically for some other planet(s)?

Post by Christopher A. Lee
Which wouldn't be so bad if they listened, but it goes downhill from
there, with them trying to "prove" we're not telling the truth about
ourselves in a way which tells us plenty about them that isn't very
flattering.

If you believe God does not exist then you have whatever amount of faith
that you're correct, even though it makes you uncomfortable for whatever weird
reason. One reason we know is that you want to continue feeling superior even
though you're not. That may be the only one...what else could there be?

George Plimpton

2011-09-15 20:14:29 UTC

every time
you've ever been insulting to someone for believing in God or considering the
possibility of his existence.

I insult people for holding irrational beliefs.

commonsense and courtesy to keep it to themselbves it wouldn't be
treated as in-your-face bullshit.

some weird yarn he's learned somewhere (he never, ever thinks these up
himself) that he then flogs for literally over 12 years. In this case,
it's that atheists have "faith"<chortle> that there is no god. Where I
most know Fuckwit from is alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian, where since
1999 he has been flogging the lame idea that "animal rights activists"
are doing livestock animals a disservice by not wanting any more
livestock animals to exist. He claims that "aras" are "denying" a
benefit to unconceived, unborn "future farm animals"

I point out that they want to prevent such animals from living even if their
lives would have been of positive value to the animals.

1. But you can't say what's wrong with wanting to prevent any more
livestock from existing.

2. You can't define "lives...positive value" - it's meaningless.

Post by George Plimpton
by wanting no more of them to exist.

They want them to not exist.

That's what I said, Fuckwit.

Post by d***@.
AW advocates want them to live lives of
positive value.

*ONLY* if they exist. They don't necessarily think they "ought" to
exist, and they certainly don't want them to exist in order for them to
"get to experience life".

I'm a weak agnostic since

That's a lie. You're a true-believing, irrational Southern Baptist
cracKKKer.

I never bitch about being shit on afaik. I do bitch about George lying to me,
and about me,

I've never done that, Fuckwit.

They are both aspects of situations that some people are opposed to thinking
about

They're both bullshit that didn't come up with yourself. You saw where
someone else thought them up, and you thought you had a neato-keeno
angle, but it's all bullshit.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
Just like everything they attack us with.

Pointing out that your faith is no better than anyone else's

You haven't demonstrated that it's a matter of "faith" for him, Fuckwit.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
I learned what an atheist was 55 years ago when I was 8 and realised I
was one because my parents hadn't taught me to believe.
This was also the first time I was rudely told what I "really"
believed by somebody who couldn't understand that there is a world
beyond their religion.
Not surprisingly got it wrong because they couldn't understand that
their god meant no more to us than Zeus and all the others did to
them.

That's because you've never learned to consider the possibility in a
realistic way.

No, Fuckwit - you only have faith that he never learned that. You don't
know what he has considered and hasn't, Fuckwit.

If you believe God does not exist then you have whatever amount of faith
that you're correct,

Empty assertion.

d***@.

2011-09-19 16:19:04 UTC

On Wed, 14 Sep 2011 10:04:18 -0700, Goo

On Wed, 14 Sep 2011 09:39:11 -0700, Goo

every time
you've ever been insulting to someone for believing in God or considering the
possibility of his existence.

I insult people for holding irrational beliefs.

commonsense and courtesy to keep it to themselbves it wouldn't be
treated as in-your-face bullshit.

Post by George Plimpton
by wanting no more of them to exist.

That's a lie. You're a true-believing

I don't have a true belief one way or the other as to whether there is a God
associated with this planet Goo. I have a stronger belief that there are gods
associated with some planets some places than that there is one associated with
this planet in particular, Goob.
. . .

Not surprisingly got it wrong because they couldn't understand that
their god meant no more to us than Zeus and all the others did to
them.

That's because you've never learned to consider the possibility in a
realistic way.

No, Fuckwit -

Yes Goo.

Post by George Plimpton
you only have faith that he never learned that. You don't
know what he has considered and hasn't, Fuckwit.

LOL! So you want us to believe that he learned to consider the possibility
in a realistic way, and then he UNlearned...LOL... Not likely Goob. If he
learned then he would know how from then on including now, and in fact might
even learn more ways of doing so Goo. That one's so obvious even you should be
able to comprehend it.

George Plimpton

2011-09-19 13:37:34 UTC

Post by Christopher A. Lee
commonsense and courtesy to keep it to themselbves it wouldn't be
treated as in-your-face bullshit.

some weird yarn he's learned somewhere (he never, ever thinks these up
himself) that he then flogs for literally over 12 years. In this case,
it's that atheists have "faith"<chortle> that there is no god. Where I
most know Fuckwit from is alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian, where since
1999 he has been flogging the lame idea that "animal rights activists"
are doing livestock animals a disservice by not wanting any more
livestock animals to exist. He claims that "aras" are "denying" a
benefit to unconceived, unborn "future farm animals" by wanting no more of them to exist.

They want them to not exist.

Obviously, you fuckwit.

That's a lie. You're a true-believing, irrational Southern Baptist cracKKKer.

I don't have a true belief one way or the other as to whether there is a God

That's a lie, Fuckwit. You absolutely believe in the Southern Baptist
version of "god".

Post by Christopher A. Lee
Not surprisingly got it wrong because they couldn't understand that
their god meant no more to us than Zeus and all the others did to
them.

That's because you've never learned to consider the possibility in a
realistic way.

No, Fuckwit -you only have faith that he never learned that. You don't
know what he has considered and hasn't, Fuckwit.

So you want us to believe that he learned to consider the possibility
in a realistic way,

You haven't demonstrated that he hasn't, Fuckwit.

d***@.

2011-09-20 18:52:37 UTC

On Wed, 14 Sep 2011 10:04:18 -0700, Goo

On Wed, 14 Sep 2011 09:39:11 -0700, Goo

every time
you've ever been insulting to someone for believing in God or considering the
possibility of his existence.

I insult people for holding irrational beliefs.

commonsense and courtesy to keep it to themselbves it wouldn't be
treated as in-your-face bullshit.

Post by George Plimpton
by wanting no more of them to exist.

They want them to not exist.

Obviously, you fuckwit.

That's a blatant lie and we both know it Goo. However in YOUR case:

"NO livestock benefit from being farmed." - Goo

"No farm animals benefit from farming." - Goo

"There is nothing to "appreciate" about the livestock "getting to experience
life" - Goo

""giving them life" does NOT mitigate the wrongness of
their deaths" - Goo

"the moral harm caused by killing them is greater in magnitude
than ANY benefit they might derive from "decent lives" - Goo

"no matter how "decent" the conditions are, the deliberate killing
of the animals erases all of it." - Goo

"Humans could change it. They could change it by ending it." - Goo

"There is no "selfishness" involved in wanting farm animals not to
exist as a step towards creating a more just world." - Goo

"logically one MUST conclude that not raising them in the first place is the
ethically superior choice." - Goo

"you MUST believe that it makes moral sense not to raise the animals as the only
way to prevent the harm that results from killing them." - Goo

Post by d***@.
AW advocates want them to live lives of
positive value. Since no one can eat millions of animals, we who can appreciate
their lives can do so for animals we don't consume as well as those that we do.

That's a lie. You're a true-believing

That's a lie

You're just too stupid to appreciate why because you can't comprehend, Goo.

Post by George Plimpton
, Fuckwit. You absolutely believe in the Southern Baptist
version of "god".

Some parts of it. I believe things they don't too Goober, and don't believe
some things most of them appear to believe.

Post by d***@.
. . .

Not surprisingly got it wrong because they couldn't understand that
their god meant no more to us than Zeus and all the others did to
them.

That's because you've never learned to consider the possibility in a
realistic way.

No, Fuckwit -

Yes Goo.

Post by George Plimpton
you only have faith that he never learned that. You don't
know what he has considered and hasn't, Fuckwit.

You haven't demonstrated that he hasn't, Fuckwit.

LOL! He has Goo. If he could he would, but he can't so he can't.

Post by d***@.
That one's so obvious even you should be
able to comprehend it.

George Plimpton

2011-09-20 16:22:37 UTC

Post by George Plimpton
some weird yarn he's learned somewhere (he never, ever thinks these up
himself) that he then flogs for literally over 12 years. In this case,
it's that atheists have "faith"<chortle> that there is no god. Where I
most know Fuckwit from is alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian, where since
1999 he has been flogging the lame idea that "animal rights activists"
are doing livestock animals a disservice by not wanting any more
livestock animals to exist. He claims that "aras" are "denying" a
benefit to unconceived, unborn "future farm animals"

Post by George Plimpton
by wanting no more of them to exist.

They want them to not exist.

Obviously, you fuckwit.

That's a blatant lie

It's not a lie, Fuckwit. "aras" obviously want no more farm animals to
exist.

d***@.

2011-09-13 19:55:59 UTC

So you concede that you don't know whether God exists or not any
better
than
anyone else does Goo and your faith is in no way superior to anyone
else's

It's not "faith" to reject unproven hypotheses,

The degree to which a person believes something is how much faith
they
have
in it being correct.

That's not what religious "faith" means. Religious faith

Faith is the same in all situations. You have it or you don't, whether
it's
that God exists or that cows piss.

No, it isn't. That cows piss is knowledge gained by repeated and verifiable
physical observations. There's no "faith" involved.

faith (fth)
n.
1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea,
or thing.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/faith
. . .

Belief that something is correct

Is faith that it's correct. LOL...I've even known people to claim that
they
don't have faith in anything at all.

It's not "faith". Faith that the sun will appear in the morning is not the
same as faith that a Supreme Being guides your life.

Yes it is. Faith is faith. The reasons why people have faith is what
differs, but not the faith itself. If someone really doesn't have faith then
they don't, but if they do they do. Duh. LOL...you certainly do seem to have a
lot of trouble with obvious things like this. To think you don't have faith in
anything is both stupid and ignorant.

based on solid, verifiable evidence is the
exact opposite of religious faith.
You consistently mess everything up by equivocating on fundamental
concepts.

What I do is think things through a lot more than you do.

You think badly, you confuse and misunderstand concepts.

LOL! What I do is think through your attempted barricades to further
thinking...LOL...and really I can't help but believe you do understand that
much. MAYBE you really don't, and I have certainly overestimated you before even
though I've always had a low opinion, but I still can't help believing that you
ARE aware of what I pointed out and of course try to build your barricades in
your attempts to protect the misnomer.

Your comprehension
level is that of a primary school student.

You know better than that too. You're just parroting me because I've pointed
out that things you tell me are to me, like if a young child told you strawberry
milk comes from pink cows would be to you. Rupert is below where the kids in my
6th grade class were and so are you. According to you, before your unlearning
you were about at the level we were in 6th grade, but now after your unlearning
you are below that level. Actually I don't believe you've ever gotten to that
level at all, and you were being dishonest when you pretended to be by saying
things like:

"We give them life. They give us their lives, and our
lifestyles. It's a mutually beneficial contract" - "Dutch"

I also have a lot

more interest in the truth. That makes a huge difference. If you did then
we
would have quit arguing years ago back before your unlearning. I still
believe
Goo had a big influence on you there and that you MIGHT actually have
become
what you act like you would like to be--a true AW supporter

I am an AW supporter,

No, you're not. IF you really believe you are some people might say that
means you are, but it does not because you suck at it so extremely badly that
you literally do oppose it. Remember I've pointed that fact out to you many
times. LOL...no one reading your comments would ever be encouraged to accept AW
over the misnomer because of something you've written since your unlearning.

and an opponent of the real misnomer, The LoL,

LOL!!!! You suck so badly at pretending to be an AW supporter, that you just
called your own insulting way of referring to appreciation for lives of positive
value for animals, "the real misnomer"...LOL!

which you falsely present as AW.

In contrast to your dishonesty, a person can certainly appreciate lives of
positive value for livestock when they are the result of AW regulations as well
as when they are not. You can do neither, which is one of the ways you reveal
yourself as I've pointed out to you a number of times.

d***@.

2011-09-20 18:57:12 UTC

It doesn't matter how a person arrives at the strong belief

It matters a lot, it is EVERYTHING, to a rational person. You are the
opposite of a rational person.
"Faith" in something based on many and repeatable concrete verifications,
such as in scientific experiments

Keeping in mind the fact that God can't allow proof of his existence if he
wants to allow us to have the freedoms we do have, explain what scientific
experiments could give a person reason to have faith that the possibility God
does not exist is the correct one. Also explain how you want people to think
faith that God does not exist is supposedly superior to faith that he does. Go:

Dutch

2011-09-20 18:22:50 UTC

It doesn't matter how a person arrives at the strong belief

I have faith that there are no rocking horses on the moon because I have
seen no evidence of their existence, and there is no compelling argument to
make me believe they do. If and when I see such evidence then I'll change
my mind. That is scientific thinking.

You believe there are rocking horses on the moon despite a lack of evidence.
That is "religious faith".

Christopher A. Lee

2011-09-20 18:38:34 UTC

It doesn't matter how a person arrives at the strong belief

Keeping in mind the fact that God can't allow proof of his existence if

What "fact" is the imbecile talking about?

And what "God"?

Post by d***@.
he
wants to allow us to have the freedoms we do have, explain what scientific

Complete and utter bullshit.

Post by d***@.
experiments could give a person reason to have faith that the possibility God

What "God"?

In any case it's not our problem.

If these morons actually had any evidence they would not need such a
transparent cop out.

Post by d***@.
does not exist is the correct one. Also explain how you want people to think

What makes these pig-ignorant morons so in-your-face stupid?

In the real world their religion and its god are not substantively
different from all the others - they're all of them merely beliefs.

If he thinks we ought to take his seriously he has to make us see it
the way he does.

Instead of rudely and stupidly talking at us as if he had already done
that.

What's wrong with these morons?

Post by Dutch
I have faith that there are no rocking horses on the moon because I have
seen no evidence of their existence, and there is no compelling argument to
make me believe they do. If and when I see such evidence then I'll change
my mind. That is scientific thinking.

That's not faith.

Especially not in the sense dh is using the word.

Post by Dutch
You believe there are rocking horses on the moon despite a lack of evidence.
That is "religious faith".

BruceS

2011-09-20 20:53:54 UTC

It doesn't matter how a person arrives at the strong belief

Keeping in mind the fact that God can't allow proof of his existence if

What "fact" is the imbecile talking about?

Now *there's* your problem. You should read more Douglas Adams, and
you'd know that if God revealed His existence unambiguously (as
through having created something that couldn't be produced through
chance evolution), He would disappear forever. QED. He's talking
about the God of H2G2. HTH.
<snip>

Merlin

2011-09-22 02:36:07 UTC

No one can prove god to anyone.
The conditions that allow god to become aware to each of us.
is the nature of our love.

Faith is the first step and belief may help us learn to love that we
may find god for ourselves. We will always disappoint others, for our
experiences with god are non transferable. Take the first step
yourself, and being to love till it hurts so much that God will reveal
God's self to you too. It is up to each of us to do what is next to
find out for ourselves.

in love with the living loving gay jesus,

merlin

It doesn't matter how a person arrives at the strong belief

Keeping in mind the fact that God can't allow proof of his existence if

What "fact" is the imbecile talking about?

Yap

2011-09-22 03:18:03 UTC

Post by Merlin
No one can prove god to anyone.

If no one can prove a god and of its value to us, what is the use of
its existence?

Post by Merlin
The conditions that allow god to become aware to each of us.
is the nature of our love.

Our love is for useful things such as companion, family, fellow human,
the nation, the environment, etc which are all tangible elements of
this world.

To love an imaginative entity is a display of insanity.

Post by Merlin
Faith is the first step and belief may help us learn to love that we
may find god for ourselves. We will always disappoint others, for our
experiences with god are non transferable. Take the first step
yourself, and being to love till it hurts so much that God will reveal
God's self to you too. It is up to each of us to do what is next to
find out for ourselves.

What god you are talking about?
It could not reveal to you his love for fellow believers in incidents
during which >200,000 Christians died in Haitian quake.
You love for such entity is merely a factual symptom of delusional
disease...a disease that has no cure.

Post by Merlin
in love with the living loving gay jesus,

What living what loving?

Post by Merlin
merlin

It doesn't matter how a person arrives at the strong belief

Keeping in mind the fact that God can't allow proof of his existence if

What "fact" is the imbecile talking about?

Merlin

2011-09-22 13:46:18 UTC

Post by Merlin
No one can prove god to anyone.

If no one can prove a god and of its value to us, what is the use of
its existence?

your own personal fantastical experience and adventure in discovery
for yourself.

has anyone ever proved god existed to anyone else? nope.

Post by Merlin
The conditions that allow god to become aware to each of us.
is the nature of our love.

Our love is for useful things such as companion, family, fellow human,
the nation, the environment, etc which are all tangible elements of
this world.

expressing our love is important, it helps us find what love is, and
will lead to understanding the universe within each of us where god
dwells.

Post by Yap
To love an imaginative entity is a display of insanity.

what is a nation save a concept?

tangible love is like believe and faith, they are the first steps.
by loving others we learn to love ourselves and find who we really
are.
yet 'others' are only a shadow of who we are inside.
that is what all those tragic love songs are about, projecting our
love outward
and finding happiness and disappointment.

What god you are talking about?

there is only one god.
it is the same god every religion, just in differing fashions and
customs of those times when the religion was created.

Post by Yap
It could not reveal to you his

you see god as a man?
merlin sees god as not human nor in human form.
tho some have found god while in human form.

Post by Yap
love for fellow believers in incidents
during which >200,000 Christians died in Haitian quake.

nobody ever dies. yes we leave our bodies yet they are not our
permanent homes.

until humanity comes to grip with problems around us, people will
construct poorly in earth quake zones.
that is not god's fault, nature does what nature does.

Post by Yap
You love for such entity is merely a factual symptom of delusional
disease...a disease that has no cure.

and you lack of love proves this to you?

the goal isn't finding god, the goal is what we do to find god and
what we do after we find god.

the otter in Toad Hall went upstream and found god, and while
returning forgot what he had done.
such is the life.

Post by Merlin
in love with the living loving gay jesus,

What living what loving?

no one ever dies, we live 'forever' we were here at the big bang, we
will be hear when the universe is swallowed back up.
in the process we have learned so much about ourselves we now use
electricity and don't always have to swing from trees.

look at Lucy from three million years ago as our early ancestor, we
haven't changed that much, tho we have refined out bodies and learn to
use bigger tools. What can we imagine next.

in love with the living loving gay jesus,

merlin

It doesn't matter how a person arrives at the strong belief

Keeping in mind the fact that God can't allow proof of his existence if

What "fact" is the imbecile talking about?

Yap

2011-09-23 12:48:33 UTC

Post by Merlin
No one can prove god to anyone.

If no one can prove a god and of its value to us, what is the use of
its existence?

your own personal fantastical experience and adventure in discovery
for yourself.

Yes, but must be real in nature....not imaginative to satisfy one's
thirst for fantasy.

Post by Merlin
has anyone ever proved god existed to anyone else? nope.

This is true to the core....no one can, simply because there is no
pixie around.

Post by Merlin
The conditions that allow god to become aware to each of us.
is the nature of our love.

Our love is for useful things such as companion, family, fellow human,
the nation, the environment, etc which are all tangible elements of
this world.

expressing our love is important, it helps us find what love is, and
will lead to understanding the universe within each of us where god
dwells.

Ha, god dwells, you are funny.
Me is where my emotion, feeling and sensation will interact with my
surrounding, my family, my lover, my nation, my profession and my
work....I waste no nothing for the imaginative pixie....the weak
beings only look up to one.

Post by Yap
To love an imaginative entity is a display of insanity.

what is a nation save a concept?
tangible love is like believe and faith, they are the first steps.

Yes, tangible love is for tangible things (pet, girl, family, job,
nation, nature, etc)...isn't this simple enough for any one to
understand?

Post by Merlin
by loving others we learn to love ourselves and find who we really
are.

Yes, yes....

Post by Merlin
yet 'others' are only a shadow of who we are inside.

Really?
Is family, nation and nature just shadows inside us? I don't think so.

There is this kind of love.....we love but look for no return.

Post by Merlin
that is what all those tragic love songs are about, projecting our
love outward
and finding happiness and disappointment.

Love affairs without care nurture will always be a disaster and may
end up disappointment.
Love for our nature such as to strive to preserve the environment
which will ultimately taking care of all. The return is not so direct.

What god you are talking about?

there is only one god.

There is no god...only a sucker will believe there is one.

Post by Merlin
it is the same god every religion, just in differing fashions and
customs of those times when the religion was created.

Superstition leads to religion.

Post by Yap
It could not reveal to you his

you see god as a man?

No...I see man created sky daddy, to be able to live forever or to go
to a empty heaven.

Post by Merlin
merlin sees god as not human nor in human form.
tho some have found god while in human form.

God is a concept in human mind and invented by ancient un-educated
people.

Post by Yap
love for fellow believers in incidents
during which >200,000 Christians died in Haitian quake.

nobody ever dies. yes we leave our bodies yet they are not our
permanent homes.

Fantasy will not make it true.
You can say the above because you have no love ones lost !

Post by Merlin
until humanity comes to grip with problems around us, people will
construct poorly in earth quake zones.
that is not god's fault, nature does what nature does.

So, your god has zero ability to mend the earth faults?
The what is a god for....to carry balls?

Post by Yap
You love for such entity is merely a factual symptom of delusional
disease...a disease that has no cure.

and you lack of love proves this to you?

My love can't be wasted on imaginative being or concept....sorry,
ain't my piece of meat.

Post by Merlin
the goal isn't finding god, the goal is what we do to find god and
what we do after we find god.

So, you refuse to acknowledge that god is just a pixie?

Post by Merlin
the otter in Toad Hall went upstream and found god, and while
returning forgot what he had done.
such is the life.

The otter is looking for survival...what it found was food.
Now, when it comes back, it will digest and feel hungry again and its
cycle begins again...much the same for human.
The nature provide otter with the chance to hunt for survival....but
nature is no god.

Post by Merlin
in love with the living loving gay jesus,

What living what loving?

Well, you are talking about evolution....we are still apes.
We evolve sufficiently to be able to cultivate our food, grow our food
and not live on the trees.

Post by Merlin
look at Lucy from three million years ago as our early ancestor, we
haven't changed that much, tho we have refined out bodies and learn to
use bigger tools. What can we imagine next.

You say Lucy, I say "zen". We know not how we came into being...but we
look forward and not backwards.

Post by Merlin
in love with the living loving gay jesus,

Pathetic bigotry.

Post by Merlin
merlin

It doesn't matter how a person arrives at the strong belief

Keeping in mind the fact that God can't allow proof of his existence if

What "fact" is the imbecile talking about?

Merlin

2011-09-23 14:22:33 UTC

Post by Yap
Yes, but must be real in nature....

merlin is not a nature worshiper.

what is real to you? god is our imagination.
whether someone is first to discover that earth travels around the
sun.
or some else cannot imagine that and threaten to kill the person that
discovered the solar system.

it all starts in our imaginings.

Post by Yap
not imaginative to satisfy one's
thirst for fantasy.

whose fantasies are you gonna satisfy if not your own quest for love?
everything starts with an idea, not a fact.
our personal experiences is what separates the two for us.

you seem to trying to solve this dilemma about god with your mind.
for is not all experiences human understand in our minds?

Post by Merlin
has anyone ever proved god existed to anyone else? nope.

This is true to the core....no one can, simply because there is no
pixie around.

merlin is not talking about pixies. you can believe in them when you
wish.

merlin is talking more about the inner witness of your own deeds.
you might call it your consciousness.

merlin sees this as the gateway to god, and this link is opened to god
with love.

Post by Yap
Ha, god dwells, you are funny.

there is no place god is not..........
for men there is one place god can 'hide' that no seems to be able to
find god.
and that is within each of us.

as an example: humans know more about outer space than we do the
deepest darkest oceans.

Post by Yap
Me is where my emotion, feeling and sensation will interact with

you mind in your imagination.

Post by Yap
my
surrounding, my family, my lover, my nation, my profession and my
work....I waste no nothing for the imaginative pixie....the weak
beings only look up to one.

inward looking is not looking up.
you have an affinity for many things, all conceived in your mind.
yet you do not seem to want to admit that it is all imagined,
imagineered in your mind and made into a library for your use.

go beyond what you know, challenge yourself to travel the universe by
going within in love.
that love will open doors you never imagined.

Post by Merlin
tangible love is like believe and faith, they are the first steps.

Yes, tangible love is for tangible things (pet, girl, family, job,
nation, nature, etc)...isn't this simple enough for any one to
understand?

what happens when we don't understand?
when we don't have these seemingly tangible things you speak of?

find where you exist without all these outward motivations, find where
your joy of being
for lack of better words resides within you....... the key to
unlocking this is a love
that does not need object to love.

Post by Merlin
by loving others we learn to love ourselves and find who we really
are.

Yes, yes....

this is important...... too few people take the time to do this,
and become disappointed when they attain their outward goals.
loving ourselves is allot harder than many think.

that is why it was said, love others as we love ourselves.

Post by Merlin
yet 'others' are only a shadow of who we are inside.

Really?

yes really.

Post by Yap
Is family, nation and nature just shadows inside us? I don't think so.

you are thinking again..... none of the things you list lasts past
their time.
all such things fade and a new nation is born, and new family is
created and nature changes
from the dinosaurs to giraffes and even the mice in the walls.

Post by Yap
There is this kind of love.....we love but look for no return.

you got it.... you know it..... cause you can imagine it.

Post by Merlin
that is what all those tragic love songs are about, projecting our
love outward
and finding happiness and disappointment.

Love affairs without care nurture will always be a disaster and may
end up disappointment.

all things in this universe change, it isn't disaster so much as no
longer a need for them to stay the same.

Post by Yap
Love for our nature such as to strive to preserve the environment

let it go, let it grow, let it become what it evolves into.
don't hold on to the landscape.

look how much humans have evolved in the last 3 million years.
what is next that we would want to preserve the human form as it is
now?
we might be missing out on the next big glory since early eqypt or
greece.

Post by Yap
which will ultimately taking care of all. The return is not so direct.

yet nothing is ever destroyed, e=mc2 says it all.
from energy to matter and back to energy nothing is lost.

and we live somewhere in between yet we are always alive we never die.
which begs us to imagine what are we when we are not matter and only
energy does it not?

Post by Merlin
there is only one god.

There is no god...

that you can imagine at the moment.
try the experiment.... to love with all you got
not matter what happens to yah, not matter what...
and see what happens. Merlin isn't promising you anything,
yet merlin knows it worked for merlin.

Post by Yap
only a sucker will believe there is one.

yes P.T.Barnum, there is a sucker a minute.

you remember the man eating chicken that P.T. set up?
people actually thought imagined it was a chicken eating a man......

you remember the sign to get people to leave one of his exhibits?
"egress this way" people thought it was another oddity not an exit.

Post by Merlin
it is the same god every religion, just in differing fashions and
customs of those times when the religion was created.

Superstition leads to religion.

yes there is such in religion, yet see the religious experience with
god
as not organized nor defined by any religion and you may work your way
through it.

Post by Yap
It could not reveal to you his

you see god as a man?

No...

you said his...............
sweet in a way, it is hard to get around the lexicon of religion that
has crept into our culture.

Post by Yap
I see man created sky daddy, to be able to live forever or to go
to a empty heaven.

and that is your imagination.
merlin sees god as our imaginations.
the bigger the broader the better.

Post by Merlin
merlin sees god as not human nor in human form.
tho some have found god while in human form.

God is a concept in human mind and invented by ancient un-educated
people.

this may seem so to those that have never met god.

everything is a concept.... this is what we have been talking about.
where we get our ideas from, where our preferences reside,
where we keep our own personal experiences in our minds.

isn't it amazing that we can plunk down our words on a key board and
spell our messages
and understand each other? wow. what kinda of imagination does that
take.

when christopher columbus arrived, the natives on shore didn't see the
boats,
they had no visual concept for them, that had never imagined them and
could not
see them on the horizon.

Post by Yap
love for fellow believers in incidents
during which >200,000 Christians died in Haitian quake.

nobody ever dies. yes we leave our bodies yet they are not our
permanent homes.

Fantasy will not make it true.

e=mc2 will make the concept real.
remember nothing ever disappears.
everything is efficiently transformed into something else.

unless you don't believe in science.

Post by Yap
You can say the above because you have no love ones lost !

love never dies......... people never die........
that we don't know where they go after this life,
does not mean they didn't go somewhere.

and yes merlin has lost friends and loved ones.
tho we will all join them someday, unless they reincarnate before we
get back.

Post by Merlin
until humanity comes to grip with problems around us, people will
construct poorly in earth quake zones.
that is not god's fault, nature does what nature does.

So, your god has zero ability to mend the earth faults?

Nature is what nature is, you have said above that you wish to
preserved your environment
well that includes letting the earth shake does it not?

so now we know the earth shakes, might we not set building standards
that help us survive earth quakes?

there are ancient markers all along the coast of japan showing where
no one should live past those markers towards the shore..... yet
modern japan ignored those markers and built anyway. is that god's
fault?

such is the same with the rest of us, why do so many towns build in
flood plains anyway? or build down stream from a damn? or on a known
fault line?

this is the will of man not god's choice.

Post by Yap
The what is a god for....to carry balls?

imagine what you might do with god at your back..........
imagine what you might do listening for a still small voice of reason
that you know some how isn't your mind.

imagine what you would do when the whole universe is made available to
you
and wisdom and experience of that universe is made bare to you that
you
may do with it what you want in clear consciousness.

imagine the power of you non stipulated love.

Post by Yap
You love for such entity is merely a factual symptom of delusional
disease...a disease that has no cure.

and you lack of love proves this to you?

My love can't be wasted on imaginative being or concept....

then you don't love to go to disney world?

disney has made a fortune for many with his imaginings and concepts.

Post by Yap
sorry,
ain't my piece of meat.

doesn't have to be.
you will find what you need along the way.

Post by Merlin
the goal isn't finding god, the goal is what we do to find god and
what we do after we find god.

So, you refuse to acknowledge that god is just a pixie?

you may not understanding the adventure proposed.
the life of an adventurer is experience of the adventure
and the life after the expedition is over.
those are what shape the adventurer.

and that is one way to define a relationship with god,
look at the stories of previous adventures with god.
from Krishna to Jesus, they all tell the same tail
in differing customs and rituals of life.

yet each one is a map for each of us to find that same treasure.
and the treasure isn't even the point. our lives lived are.

Post by Merlin
the otter in Toad Hall went upstream and found god, and while
returning forgot what he had done.
such is the life.

The otter is looking for survival...

the otter went looking for god.

Post by Yap
what it found was food.

there was spiritual food yes.

Post by Yap
Now, when it comes back, it will digest and feel hungry again and its
cycle begins again...much the same for human.
The nature provide otter with the chance to hunt for survival....but
nature is no god.

this happens to all of us, we experience the divine and soon go back
to our daily lives
and seemingly don't remember. the exciting part is when someone pops
their head up
and starts to remember an experience with god, and starts to talk
about it and explain it,
and it almost always is outside the traditional religion of those
times.

people didn't get jesus at all, the murdered jesus for blasphemy
against the roman state religion.
so your not understanding what is proposed here is part of human
nature. that is why love
is ask for from Kirshna to Jesus, to help us gain the experience that
this love brings.

Post by Merlin
in love with the living loving gay jesus,

What living what loving?

Well, you are talking about evolution....

yes we have evolved from thinking the earth is the center of the
universe.

Post by Yap
we are still apes.

your imagination isn't.

humans have survived and out smarted several species to become earth's
top dog.......
how long will we remain at this pinnacle?

Post by Yap
We evolve sufficiently to be able to cultivate our food, grow our food
and not live on the trees.

you make it sound easy. it wasn't easy to imagine turning the first
rock or stick into a tool.
it takes looking at it, and imagining it to be something other than
what it obviously is......

now add love to the mix and see what happens.

Post by Merlin
look at Lucy from three million years ago as our early ancestor, we
haven't changed that much, tho we have refined out bodies and learn to
use bigger tools. What can we imagine next.

You say Lucy, I say "zen". We know not how we came into being...but we
look forward and not backwards.

don't ignored the past, it proves how far our imaginings have come.
the future is shaped by our efforts to imagine today.

Post by Merlin
in love with the living loving gay jesus,

Pathetic bigotry.

LOL, love always wins in the end.

in love with the living loving gay jesus,

merlin

Post by Merlin
merlin

It doesn't matter how a person arrives at the strong belief

Keeping in mind the fact that God can't allow proof of his existence if

What "fact" is the imbecile talking about?

Mike Lovell

2011-09-22 03:19:30 UTC

Post by Merlin
No one can prove god to anyone.

Never truer words. This has a lot to do with the fact God(s) don't
exist.

--
Mike

Catawimp's defeat: ***@usenet.home.b0h0.com
Why is he afraid of replying to this post in full?

Olrik

2011-09-22 04:35:21 UTC

Post by Merlin
in love with the living loving gay jesus,

Loki.

Post by Merlin
merlin

walksalone

2011-09-22 09:41:13 UTC

Post by Merlin
in love with the living loving gay jesus,

Loki.

I don't think so. I recall, & have killfiled this one froom my ARCB days.
Self proclaimed mystic IIRC. Either way, a tail chaser.

walksalone who had a good memory once, then I retired in Alabama. Never
needed it in day to day activity. But thanks to AA, it is slowly
recovering.

ABATIS, n. Rubbish in front of a fort, to prevent the rubbish
outside from molesting the rubbish inside.
Devils dictionary

d***@.

2011-09-22 22:04:01 UTC

It doesn't matter how a person arrives at the strong belief

Keeping in mind the fact that God can't allow proof of his existence if

What "fact"

That God can't allow proof of his existence if he wants to allow us to have
the freedoms we do have.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
is the imbecile talking about?
And what "God"?

In this case it would be any God.

Post by d***@.
he
wants to allow us to have the freedoms we do have, explain what scientific

Complete and utter bullshit.

Post by d***@.
experiments could give a person reason to have faith that the possibility God

What "God"?

Any God.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
In any case it's not our problem.

Your "problem" is that you can't say how the faith of people who believe God
exists is in any way inferior to the faith of people who believe he does not
exist.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
If these morons actually had any evidence they would not need such a
transparent cop out.

LOL...it's amusing you think such a significant fact is a "cop out".

Post by d***@.
does not exist is the correct one. Also explain how you want people to think

What makes these pig-ignorant

So far it appears extremely clear that we're all ignorant of any reason to
consider the faith of those who believe God does not exist to be superior to the
faith of those who believe he does exist. You are just as ignorant of it as all
the rest of us are, though it seems from my position that you might possibly not
be aware of it.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
morons so in-your-face stupid?
In the real world their religion and its god are not substantively
different from all the others - they're all of them merely beliefs.

So is yours. From my pov it's no different than any other religious belief
except that it's so tiny and entirely restricted from any sort of possible
growth.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
If he thinks we ought to take his seriously he has to make us see it
the way he does.
Instead of rudely and stupidly talking at us as if he had already done
that.

I've told you a few things but if you can't appreciate them then that's your
end, not mine.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
What's wrong with these morons?

I wonder that your way too. Can you physically mentally not attempt to
consider the possibility of God's existence in a realistic and not childlike
way? Or are you physically mentally capable of it but you just refuse to for
some reason(s).

That's not faith.

He has faith about the rocking horses even if you don't, though I suspect
you do too.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
Especially not in the sense dh is using the word.

Faith is the degree of confidence you have that something you believe to be
correct IS correct, whether you are correct or not.

d***@.

2011-09-22 21:44:05 UTC

It doesn't matter how a person arrives at the strong belief

I have faith that there are no rocking horses on the moon

Explain how you want people to think faith that God does not exist is
supposedly superior to faith that he does. Go:

James Warren

2011-09-22 19:15:37 UTC

It doesn't matter how a person arrives at the strong belief

I have faith that there are no rocking horses on the moon

Explain how you want people to think faith that God does not exist is

There is no evidence that God exists.

--
jw

Father Haskell

2011-09-22 19:18:24 UTC

Post by James Warren

It doesn't matter how a person arrives at the strong belief

Keeping in mind the fact that God can't allow proof of his existence if
he
wants to allow us to have the freedoms we do have, explain what scientific
experiments could give a person reason to have faith that the possibility God
does not exist is the correct one. Also explain how you want people to think

I have faith that there are no rocking horses on the moon

Explain how you want people to think faith that God does not exist is

There is no evidence that God exists.

And overwhelming evidence that delusion does.

James Warren

2011-09-22 19:26:43 UTC

Post by Father Haskell

Post by James Warren

It doesn't matter how a person arrives at the strong belief

I have faith that there are no rocking horses on the moon

Explain how you want people to think faith that God does not exist is

There is no evidence that God exists.

And overwhelming evidence that delusion does.

Yes indeed! :)

--
jw

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure
and the intelligent are full of doubt." -- Bertrand Russell
"What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof." - Christopher Hitchens.

Dutch

2011-09-22 19:18:33 UTC

It doesn't matter how a person arrives at the strong belief

Keeping in mind the fact that God can't allow proof of his existence
if
he
wants to allow us to have the freedoms we do have, explain what scientific
experiments could give a person reason to have faith that the
possibility
God
does not exist is the correct one. Also explain how you want people to think

I have faith that there are no rocking horses on the moon

Explain how you want people to think faith that God does not exist is

I didn't say anything about superiority. Faith based on concrete evidence is
completely different than faith based on intuition. They're different
concepts.

I have faith that when I look down I will see my feet. You have faith that a
supreme being, God, exists and he sent his son to save our eternal souls.
Those are not the same kind of faith. The only similarity is that in both
cases you have a belief that something is true, but the route you take to
get there makes them virtually opposite.

George Plimpton

2011-09-23 03:17:05 UTC

It doesn't matter how a person arrives at the strong belief

I have faith that there are no rocking horses on the moon

Explain how you want people to think faith that God does not exist

No one has "faith" that god does not exist, Fuckwit.

How quick they get p****d off

2011-09-15 23:39:34 UTC

It is not a question of faith in any way.

Goober if you believe God does not exist

Before you can decide that then you should determine exactly what "God" is.
Opinions are divided on the subject. Even the new and old testiment of your
bible have different intepretations. It is very evident that what "God" is,
is a subjective area. Of course, many people mould it into something to be
worshipped hwere others mould it into something to be hated and others still
regard it with indifference. Of course to determine that God does or does
not exist is very much dependent on intepretation.

--
J

d***@.

2011-09-19 16:09:16 UTC

On Fri, 16 Sep 2011 00:39:34 +0100, "How quick they get p****d off"

It is not a question of faith in any way.

Goober if you believe God does not exist

Let's start with any intelligent being that had deliberate influence on the
way things took place and evolved on this planet, and go from there. In fact
let's say any being that had that sort of influence on any planet(s) even if
none had any on Earth. Now what?

How quick they get p****d off

2011-09-19 21:43:33 UTC

Post by d***@.
On Fri, 16 Sep 2011 00:39:34 +0100, "How quick they get p****d off"

It is not a question of faith in any way.

Goober if you believe God does not exist

That's your intepretation. Whether it's Goober's is another matter.

--
J

d***@.

2011-09-20 19:02:04 UTC

On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 22:43:33 +0100, "How quick they get p****d off"

Post by d***@.
On Fri, 16 Sep 2011 00:39:34 +0100, "How quick they get p****d off"

It is not a question of faith in any way.

Goober if you believe God does not exist

That's your intepretation.

That's what I would consider to be the minimum for something that could
truly be considered godlike. It could be much much greater than that of course.
Then it gets even more complicated when a person considers other beings, like
Jesus. Atheists can't get anywhere with it at all...at least strong atheists
can't. We see that Muslims don't want to think that God and Jesus are strongly
associated with each other, so they can't get anywhere with it either. Nor can
Jews. If there is association between God and Jesus, it appears that only
Christians are really able to appreciate it. But that makes sense too. Why go
through the horror of dying on a cross for people who can't appreciate what you
did? That would be insulting to both God and people who do appreciate what he
did.

Post by How quick they get p****d off
Whether it's Goober's is another matter.

You could quite possibly attempt to get Goo to try to explain what he thinks
for years and never get him to do it. An example is the fact that for some
reason Goo got the idea many livestock animals are raised for no other reason
than to support the pet food industry. He is still convinced that's the case,
afawk. We do know for a while Goo actually believed some cattle were raised for
twelve years for no other reason than to become pet food. That's both pathetic
and hilarious, but we know Goo believed it for several years and he got his two
boys "Dutch" and "Derek" to believe it as well. The three of them tried to find
examples to back up the stupid idea, but Goo himself never found anything he
could present as an attempt. Anyway...between the three of them "Derek" found a
couple of things that were very obviously not even close to examples. "Dutch"
finally found one thing that was not an example of what Goo claimed, but it was
an example of one individual farm where people raised a few cattle to feed less
than 50 dogs. Still Goo believes some animals are raised for no other reason
than to become pet food, but he does not know how long he believes they are
raised, or what happens to the choice cuts of meat from those supposed animals.
He doesn't know for sure if he thinks the choice cuts from his supposed pet food
livestock are sold as waste back to the human market, or if they're actually put
into the pet food...choice sirloins and ribeyes from prime animals being put
into pet food cans just like the labels say. It appears poor Goob is very
confused about that. He considers himself to be an expert on economics, so of
course Goo can't quite figure out how choice cuts of meat can be so expensive in
the human market, while the same quality meat is being sold in pet food cans at
pet food prices.

The ideas a person like Goo has about God would almost cetainly have to be
extremely stupid, and also quite amusing.

How quick they get p****d off

2011-09-20 18:01:50 UTC

Post by d***@.
On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 22:43:33 +0100, "How quick they get p****d off"

Post by d***@.
On Fri, 16 Sep 2011 00:39:34 +0100, "How quick they get p****d off"

It is not a question of faith in any way.

Goober if you believe God does not exist

Let's start with any intelligent being that had deliberate influence
on
the
way things took place and evolved on this planet, and go from there. In fact
let's say any being that had that sort of influence on any planet(s)
even
if
none had any on Earth. Now what?

That's your intepretation.

That's what I would consider to be the minimum for something that could
truly be considered godlike.

That's what "You" consider.

Post by d***@.
It could be much much greater than that of course.
Then it gets even more complicated when a person considers other beings, like
Jesus. Atheists can't get anywhere with it at all...at least strong atheists
can't. We see that Muslims don't want to think that God and Jesus are strongly
associated with each other

The Muslims' god isn't associated with Jesus at all..

Post by d***@.
, so they can't get anywhere with it either. Nor can
Jews. If there is association between God and Jesus, it appears that only
Christians are really able to appreciate it. But that makes sense too.

The Jewish are very much old testiment. They know their god by name. They
honour thier scriptures and they don't beleive their god had an identity
drisis around two millenia ago.

Post by d***@.
Why go
through the horror of dying on a cross for people who can't appreciate what you
did? That would be insulting to both God and people who do appreciate what he
did.

Lots of people died on the cross, all for crimes against the Romans. I don't
think they considered if people appreciated what they did.

Post by How quick they get p****d off
Whether it's Goober's is another matter.

You could quite possibly attempt to get Goo to try to explain what he thinks
for years and never get him to do it.

Goober doesn't need to explain. That's why it's called a personal god. It's
subjective and no-one is under any obligation to justify it to anyone else

Post by d***@.
An example is the fact that for some
reason Goo got the idea many livestock animals are raised for no other reason
than to support the pet food industry. He is still convinced that's the case,
afawk.

I fail to see the relevence of this to his personal god.

Post by d***@.
We do know for a while Goo actually believed some cattle were raised for
twelve years for no other reason than to become pet food. That's both pathetic
and hilarious,

What is? That "some cattle were raised for twelve years for no other
reason than to become pet food" or that he believed they were?

Post by d***@.
but we know Goo believed it for several years and he got his two
boys "Dutch" and "Derek" to believe it as well. The three of them tried to find
examples to back up the stupid idea, but Goo himself never found anything he
could present as an attempt. Anyway...between the three of them "Derek" found a
couple of things that were very obviously not even close to examples. "Dutch"
finally found one thing that was not an example of what Goo claimed, but it was
an example of one individual farm where people raised a few cattle to feed less
than 50 dogs. Still Goo believes some animals are raised for no other reason
than to become pet food, but he does not know how long he believes they are
raised, or what happens to the choice cuts of meat from those supposed animals.
He doesn't know for sure if he thinks the choice cuts from his supposed pet food
livestock are sold as waste back to the human market, or if they're actually put
into the pet food...choice sirloins and ribeyes from prime animals being put
into pet food cans just like the labels say. It appears poor Goob is very
confused about that. He considers himself to be an expert on economics, so of
course Goo can't quite figure out how choice cuts of meat can be so expensive in
the human market, while the same quality meat is being sold in pet food cans at
pet food prices.

Again, I fail to see the connection between this and his personal god.

Post by d***@.
The ideas a person like Goo has about God would almost cetainly have to be
extremely stupid, and also quite amusing.

There is no logic to your statement. Perhaps you would clarify.

What ever, his peronal god is personal to him and what you or anyone else
might think of it has absolutely no relevence.

--
J

d***@.

2011-09-22 21:59:27 UTC

On Tue, 20 Sep 2011 19:01:50 +0100, "How quick they get p****d off"

Post by d***@.
On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 22:43:33 +0100, "How quick they get p****d off"

Post by d***@.
On Fri, 16 Sep 2011 00:39:34 +0100, "How quick they get p****d off"

It is not a question of faith in any way.

Goober if you believe God does not exist

Let's start with any intelligent being that had deliberate influence
on
the
way things took place and evolved on this planet, and go from there. In fact
let's say any being that had that sort of influence on any planet(s)
even
if
none had any on Earth. Now what?

That's your intepretation.

That's what I would consider to be the minimum for something that could
truly be considered godlike.

That's what "You" consider.

Unless someone comes up with something better, it's the best we've got.

The Muslims' god isn't associated with Jesus at all..

They consider Jesus to be a great prophit but not devine and not a savior.
They say there is no intercessor.

The Jewish are very much old testiment. They know their god by name. They
honour thier scriptures and they don't beleive their god had an identity
drisis around two millenia ago.

If God did as we are told the Jews can't appreciate the fact. I like to
believe God would not send them to Hell for that.

Post by d***@.
Why go
through the horror of dying on a cross for people who can't appreciate what you
did? That would be insulting to both God and people who do appreciate what he
did.

Lots of people died on the cross, all for crimes against the Romans. I don't
think they considered if people appreciated what they did.

They may have done it just for the fun of it, but I don't believe that's the
case.

Post by How quick they get p****d off
Whether it's Goober's is another matter.

You could quite possibly attempt to get Goo to try to explain what he thinks
for years and never get him to do it.

Goober doesn't need to explain.

He does if he wants people to consider the possibility that he might have
some clue what he's trying to talk about. Usually it seems pretty clear that he
has none.

Post by How quick they get p****d off
That's why it's called a personal god. It's
subjective and no-one is under any obligation to justify it to anyone else

Goo insults people for their beliefs. By doing that he obligates himself to
present a superior one if he doesn't want to look like a fool. Usually he does,
from my experiences with him. Test him yourself and see.

I fail to see the relevence of this to his personal god.

The relevance is that if he can believe something that ignorant and stupid
about the economics of raising livestock which he likes to think he knows
something about, then the things he believes regarding the possibility of God's
existence are likely to be even more stupid, though also quite amusing.

Post by d***@.
We do know for a while Goo actually believed some cattle were raised for
twelve years for no other reason than to become pet food. That's both pathetic
and hilarious,

What is? That "some cattle were raised for twelve years for no other
reason than to become pet food" or that he believed they were?

That he believed they were. If any actually were it would probably be good
for them, but none are.

Again, I fail to see the connection between this and his personal god.

The same stupidity level would apply to both.

Post by d***@.
The ideas a person like Goo has about God would almost cetainly have to be
extremely stupid, and also quite amusing.

There is no logic to your statement. Perhaps you would clarify.
What ever, his peronal god is personal to him and what you or anyone else
might think of it has absolutely no relevence.

Goo is ashamed to say what it is, and I strongly suspect that's with good
reason. Goo is a very shallow person, at best.

How quick they get p****d off

2011-09-22 19:27:31 UTC

Post by d***@.
On Tue, 20 Sep 2011 19:01:50 +0100, "How quick they get p****d off"

Post by d***@.
On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 22:43:33 +0100, "How quick they get p****d off"

Post by d***@.
On Fri, 16 Sep 2011 00:39:34 +0100, "How quick they get p****d off"

It is not a question of faith in any way.

Goober if you believe God does not exist

Before you can decide that then you should determine exactly what
"God"
is.
Opinions are divided on the subject. Even the new and old testiment of your
bible have different intepretations. It is very evident that what
"God"
is,
is a subjective area. Of course, many people mould it into something
to
be
worshipped hwere others mould it into something to be hated and others still
regard it with indifference. Of course to determine that God does or does
not exist is very much dependent on intepretation.

Let's start with any intelligent being that had deliberate influence
on
the
way things took place and evolved on this planet, and go from there.
In
fact
let's say any being that had that sort of influence on any planet(s)
even
if
none had any on Earth. Now what?

That's your intepretation.

That's what I would consider to be the minimum for something that could
truly be considered godlike.

That's what "You" consider.

Unless someone comes up with something better, it's the best we've got.

It's the best "You've" got.

The Muslims' god isn't associated with Jesus at all..

They consider Jesus to be a great prophit but not devine and not a savior.
They say there is no intercessor.

Do you see him as divine or as a dead hippie to struck a few chords?

The Jewish are very much old testiment. They know their god by name. They
honour thier scriptures and they don't beleive their god had an identity
drisis around two millenia ago.

If God did as we are told the Jews can't appreciate the fact. I like to
believe God would not send them to Hell for that.

Why would there be a hell at all?

Post by d***@.
Why go
through the horror of dying on a cross for people who can't appreciate what you
did? That would be insulting to both God and people who do appreciate
what
he
did.

Lots of people died on the cross, all for crimes against the Romans. I don't
think they considered if people appreciated what they did.

They may have done it just for the fun of it, but I don't believe that's the
case.

You are saying Jesus got himself nailed to a bit of wood becasue he wanted
to be liked? Most people make do with throwing parties.

Post by How quick they get p****d off
Whether it's Goober's is another matter.

You could quite possibly attempt to get Goo to try to explain what he thinks
for years and never get him to do it.

Goober doesn't need to explain.

He does if he wants people to consider the possibility that he might have
some clue what he's trying to talk about. Usually it seems pretty clear that he
has none.

If it's his "personal" got then he would not need people to understand hence
he has no need to explain.
People have their own ideas. I suspect you have one or two.

Post by How quick they get p****d off
That's why it's called a personal god. It's
subjective and no-one is under any obligation to justify it to anyone else

It's usenet, sir. He is under no obligation. If people don't like his ideas,
so what?

I fail to see the relevence of this to his personal god.

Cows are livestock and farming. Personal gods are theology. There is no
connection between the two subjects. You may as well say that anyone who
does not know the intircate specifications of the lm741 op-amp can't
possibly have a theory about chalk powder.

Post by d***@.
We do know for a while Goo actually believed some cattle were raised for
twelve years for no other reason than to become pet food. That's both pathetic
and hilarious,

What is? That "some cattle were raised for twelve years for no other
reason than to become pet food" or that he believed they were?

That he believed they were. If any actually were it would probably be good
for them, but none are.

I'll take you word for that, sir. Anyway I thought it was horsemeat that
went into pet food.

Post by d***@.
but we know Goo believed it for several years and he got his two
boys "Dutch" and "Derek" to believe it as well. The three of them tried
to
find
examples to back up the stupid idea, but Goo himself never found
anything
he
could present as an attempt. Anyway...between the three of them "Derek" found a
couple of things that were very obviously not even close to examples. "Dutch"
finally found one thing that was not an example of what Goo claimed, but it was
an example of one individual farm where people raised a few cattle to
feed
less
than 50 dogs. Still Goo believes some animals are raised for no other reason
than to become pet food, but he does not know how long he believes they are
raised, or what happens to the choice cuts of meat from those supposed animals.
He doesn't know for sure if he thinks the choice cuts from his supposed pet food
livestock are sold as waste back to the human market, or if they're actually put
into the pet food...choice sirloins and ribeyes from prime animals being put
into pet food cans just like the labels say. It appears poor Goob is very
confused about that. He considers himself to be an expert on economics,
so
of
course Goo can't quite figure out how choice cuts of meat can be so expensive in
the human market, while the same quality meat is being sold in pet food cans at
pet food prices.

Again, I fail to see the connection between this and his personal god.

The same stupidity level would apply to both.

Stupidity doesn't work that way.