Discussion:
anticipation in finches
(too old to reply)
d***@.
2013-06-18 22:14:35 UTC
Permalink
I feed mealworms to my finches a few times a week. When I begin the process
of sifting the worms out of the litter my female society finch comes down to the
area in anticipation. Sometimes the male joins her, meaning that he's also aware
of and anticipating what's about to happen even though he doesn't always come in
close. Sometimes I let the female come down and grab a worm, but sometimes not
because her wings blow the litter around making a bit of a mess. Whether I let
her or not though both birds definitely anticipate getting mealworms when they
see me begin the process.
George Plimpton
2013-06-18 22:41:39 UTC
Permalink
On 6/18/2013 3:14 PM, Fuckwit David Harrison - *Goo* - stupid,
illiterate cracker and convicted felon, defeated entirely in 1999 and
Post by d***@.
I feed mealworms to my finches a few times a week. When I begin the process
of sifting the worms out of the litter my female society finch comes down to the
area in anticipation.
Nothing but conditioned response to a signal. If you didn't enter the
room and start doing it, she wouldn't come down.

Finches do not anticipate.
Dhu on Gate
2013-06-18 23:51:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Plimpton
On 6/18/2013 3:14 PM, Fuckwit David Harrison - *Goo* - stupid,
illiterate cracker and convicted felon, defeated entirely in 1999 and
Post by d***@.
I feed mealworms to my finches a few times a week. When I begin the process
of sifting the worms out of the litter my female society finch comes
down to the area in anticipation.
Nothing but conditioned response to a signal. If you didn't enter the
room and start doing it, she wouldn't come down.
Finches do not anticipate.
HTF would you know?

Dhu
--
Ne obliviscaris, vix ea nostra voco.
George Plimpton
2013-06-19 00:24:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dhu on Gate
Post by George Plimpton
On 6/18/2013 3:14 PM, Fuckwit David Harrison - *Goo* - stupid,
illiterate cracker and convicted felon, defeated entirely in 1999 and
Post by d***@.
I feed mealworms to my finches a few times a week. When I begin the process
of sifting the worms out of the litter my female society finch comes
down to the area in anticipation.
Nothing but conditioned response to a signal. If you didn't enter the
room and start doing it, she wouldn't come down.
Finches do not anticipate.
HTF would you know?
I do know. You couldn't possibly understand how.
Dhu on Gate
2013-06-19 01:55:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dhu on Gate
Post by George Plimpton
On 6/18/2013 3:14 PM, Fuckwit David Harrison - *Goo* - stupid,
illiterate cracker and convicted felon, defeated entirely in 1999 and
Post by d***@.
I feed mealworms to my finches a few times a week. When I begin
the process
of sifting the worms out of the litter my female society finch comes
down to the area in anticipation.
Nothing but conditioned response to a signal. If you didn't enter the
room and start doing it, she wouldn't come down.
Finches do not anticipate.
HTF would you know?
I do know. You couldn't possibly understand how.
You are quite correct about my inability to comprehend your mental
processes, to be sure, but for reasons *you* cannot understand.

Dhu
--
Ne obliviscaris, vix ea nostra voco.
George Plimpton
2013-06-19 02:19:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dhu on Gate
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dhu on Gate
Post by George Plimpton
On 6/18/2013 3:14 PM, Fuckwit David Harrison - *Goo* - stupid,
illiterate cracker and convicted felon, defeated entirely in 1999 and
Post by d***@.
I feed mealworms to my finches a few times a week. When I begin
the process
of sifting the worms out of the litter my female society finch comes
down to the area in anticipation.
Nothing but conditioned response to a signal. If you didn't enter the
room and start doing it, she wouldn't come down.
Finches do not anticipate.
HTF would you know?
I do know. You couldn't possibly understand how.
You are quite correct about my inability to comprehend
I know.
unknown
2013-06-20 00:55:38 UTC
Permalink
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KEEP IT THE HELL OUT OF CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS, THANKS

==========================================================

On 6/18/2013 6:55 PM, Dhu on Gate wrote:
unknown
2013-06-20 00:55:11 UTC
Permalink
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KEEP IT THE HELL OUT OF CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS, THANKS

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On 6/18/2013 4:51 PM, Dhu on Gate wrote:
d***@.
2013-06-20 22:13:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Plimpton
Post by d***@.
I feed mealworms to my finches a few times a week. When I begin the process
of sifting the worms out of the litter my female society finch comes down to the
area in anticipation. Sometimes the male joins her, meaning that he's also aware
of and anticipating what's about to happen even though he doesn't always come in
close. Sometimes I let the female come down and grab a worm, but sometimes not
because her wings blow the litter around making a bit of a mess. Whether I let
her or not though both birds definitely anticipate getting mealworms when they
see me begin the process.
Nothing but conditioned response to a signal.
The conditioned response is anticipation Goob. STRONG anticipation, Goo.
Post by George Plimpton
If you didn't enter the
room and start doing it, she wouldn't come down.
That's because there would be nothing for her to anticipate yet, Goo.
George Plimpton
2013-06-20 23:15:02 UTC
Permalink
On 6/20/2013 3:13 PM, Fuckwit David Harrison - *Goo* - stupid,
illiterate cracker and convicted felon, defeated entirely in 1999 and
Post by d***@.
Post by George Plimpton
On 6/18/2013 3:14 PM, Fuckwit David Harrison - *Goo* - stupid,
illiterate cracker and convicted felon, defeated entirely in 1999 and
Post by d***@.
I feed mealworms to my finches a few times a week. When I begin the process
of sifting the worms out of the litter my female society finch comes down to the
area in anticipation.
Nothing but conditioned response to a signal.
Finches do not anticipate.
The conditioned response is anticipation
No.
Post by d***@.
Post by George Plimpton
If you didn't enter the
room and start doing it, she wouldn't come down.
That's because
That's because there's no signal, *Goo*. Conditioned response to a
signal is *not* anticipation, *Goo*.
Sylvia Else
2013-06-21 09:01:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Plimpton
On 6/18/2013 3:14 PM, Fuckwit David Harrison - *Goo* - stupid,
illiterate cracker and convicted felon, defeated entirely in 1999 and
Post by d***@.
I feed mealworms to my finches a few times a week. When I begin the process
of sifting the worms out of the litter my female society finch comes down to the
area in anticipation.
Nothing but conditioned response to a signal. If you didn't enter the
room and start doing it, she wouldn't come down.
Finches do not anticipate.
Is either the statement "Finches anticipate", or its converse,
falsifiable? Indeed, are the corresponding statements about humans? This
looks like angels on pinheads stuff.

Sylvia.
unknown
2013-06-22 22:45:40 UTC
Permalink
==========================================================

KEEP IT THE HELL OUT OF CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS, THANKS

==========================================================
Post by George Plimpton
Nothing but conditioned response to a signal. If you didn't enter the
room and start doing it, she wouldn't come down.
Delvin Benet
2013-06-21 22:56:35 UTC
Permalink
On 6/22/2013 3:45 PM, Karen Gordon, HIV-oozing whore and goddamned
Post by unknown
==========================================================
KEEP IT THE HELL OUT OF CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS, THANKS
==========================================================
Fuck off, Karen.
Post by unknown
Post by George Plimpton
Nothing but conditioned response to a signal. If you didn't enter the
room and start doing it, she wouldn't come down.
unknown
2013-06-22 23:55:15 UTC
Permalink
==========================================================

KEEP IT THE HELL OUT OF CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS, THANKS

==========================================================

On 6/21/2013 3:56 PM, Delvin Benet AKA George Plimpton
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Path: not-for-mail
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 15:56:35 -0700
From: Delvin Benet <***@nbc.nýt>
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Delvin Benet
2013-06-22 01:03:47 UTC
Permalink
On 6/22/2013 3:45 PM, Karen Gordon, HIV-oozing whore and goddamned
Post by unknown
==========================================================
KEEP IT THE HELL OUT OF CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS, THANKS
==========================================================
Fuck off, Karen.
Post by unknown
Post by George Plimpton
Nothing but conditioned response to a signal. If you didn't enter the
room and start doing it, she wouldn't come down.
MarkA
2013-06-18 23:47:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@.
I feed mealworms to my finches a few times a week. When I begin the process
of sifting the worms out of the litter my female society finch comes down
to the area in anticipation. Sometimes the male joins her, meaning that
he's also aware of and anticipating what's about to happen even though he
doesn't always come in close. Sometimes I let the female come down and
grab a worm, but sometimes not because her wings blow the litter around
making a bit of a mess. Whether I let her or not though both birds
definitely anticipate getting mealworms when they see me begin the
process.
When I'm putting my dog's food in a bowl (I'm always sure to make LOTS of
noise when doing so), she stands at her feeding spot, with drool dripping
out of her mouth.
--
MarkA
Keeper of Things Put There Only Just The Night Before
About eight o'clock
George Plimpton
2013-06-19 00:24:04 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 18:14:35 -0400, Fuckwit David Harrison - *Goo* - stupid, illiterate cracker and convicted felon, defeate
Post by d***@.
I feed mealworms to my finches a few times a week. When I begin the process
of sifting the worms out of the litter my female society finch comes down
to the area in anticipation. Sometimes the male joins her, meaning that
he's also aware of and anticipating what's about to happen even though he
doesn't always come in close. Sometimes I let the female come down and
grab a worm, but sometimes not because her wings blow the litter around
making a bit of a mess. Whether I let her or not though both birds
definitely anticipate getting mealworms when they see me begin the
process.
When I'm putting my dog's food in a bowl (I'm always sure to make LOTS of
noise when doing so), she stands at her feeding spot, with drool dripping
out of her mouth.
That's nothing but a conditioned response to a signal. It's not an
emotion. The anticipation being discussed is the *emotional* state of a
person contemplating an expected event. It's a completely different
meaning of the word anticipation. Fuckwit Harrison is deliberately
equivocating on the word. His finches do not have *any* emotional
reaction at all, and the physical reaction they have does not occur
until they receive the visual signal that he is preparing food for them;
and then the response is immediate.

A little child old enough to know the days of the week who is told on
Monday that she will be taken to Disneyland on Saturday does not require
any signal to begin to experience an emotional excitement - anticipation
- on Friday afternoon.
Dhu on Gate
2013-06-19 01:58:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Plimpton
On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 18:14:35 -0400, Fuckwit David Harrison - *Goo* -
stupid, illiterate cracker and convicted felon, defeate
Post by d***@.
I feed mealworms to my finches a few times a week. When I begin the process
of sifting the worms out of the litter my female society finch comes
down to the area in anticipation. Sometimes the male joins her,
meaning that he's also aware of and anticipating what's about to
happen even though he doesn't always come in close. Sometimes I let
the female come down and grab a worm, but sometimes not because her
wings blow the litter around making a bit of a mess. Whether I let her
or not though both birds definitely anticipate getting mealworms when
they see me begin the process.
When I'm putting my dog's food in a bowl (I'm always sure to make LOTS
of noise when doing so), she stands at her feeding spot, with drool
dripping out of her mouth.
That's nothing but a conditioned response to a signal. It's not an
emotion. The anticipation being discussed is the *emotional* state of a
person contemplating an expected event. It's a completely different
meaning of the word anticipation. Fuckwit Harrison is deliberately
equivocating on the word. His finches do not have *any* emotional
reaction at all, and the physical reaction they have does not occur
until they receive the visual signal that he is preparing food for them;
and then the response is immediate.
A little child old enough to know the days of the week who is told on
Monday that she will be taken to Disneyland on Saturday does not require
any signal to begin to experience an emotional excitement - anticipation
- on Friday afternoon.
*Beetles* can anticipate their own mortality, you dolt:

http://phys.org/news/2013-06-older-males-fathers-mature-male.html

You imagine everything as obtuse as yourself. Thank G*d it's not so.

Dhu
--
Ne obliviscaris, vix ea nostra voco.
George Plimpton
2013-06-19 02:25:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dhu on Gate
Post by George Plimpton
On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 18:14:35 -0400, Fuckwit David Harrison - *Goo* -
stupid, illiterate cracker and convicted felon, defeate
Post by d***@.
I feed mealworms to my finches a few times a week. When I begin
the process
of sifting the worms out of the litter my female society finch comes
down to the area in anticipation. Sometimes the male joins her,
meaning that he's also aware of and anticipating what's about to
happen even though he doesn't always come in close. Sometimes I let
the female come down and grab a worm, but sometimes not because her
wings blow the litter around making a bit of a mess. Whether I let her
or not though both birds definitely anticipate getting mealworms when
they see me begin the process.
When I'm putting my dog's food in a bowl (I'm always sure to make LOTS
of noise when doing so), she stands at her feeding spot, with drool
dripping out of her mouth.
That's nothing but a conditioned response to a signal. It's not an
emotion. The anticipation being discussed is the *emotional* state of a
person contemplating an expected event. It's a completely different
meaning of the word anticipation. Fuckwit Harrison is deliberately
equivocating on the word. His finches do not have *any* emotional
reaction at all, and the physical reaction they have does not occur
until they receive the visual signal that he is preparing food for them;
and then the response is immediate.
A little child old enough to know the days of the week who is told on
Monday that she will be taken to Disneyland on Saturday does not require
any signal to begin to experience an emotional excitement - anticipation
- on Friday afternoon.
http://phys.org/news/2013-06-older-males-fathers-mature-male.html
That paper does not say or suggest that the beetles can anticipate their
mortality. Anyway, that's the wrong meaning of anticipation.
Dhu on Gate
2013-06-19 04:49:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dhu on Gate
Post by George Plimpton
On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 18:14:35 -0400, Fuckwit David Harrison - *Goo* -
stupid, illiterate cracker and convicted felon, defeate
Post by d***@.
I feed mealworms to my finches a few times a week. When I
begin the process
of sifting the worms out of the litter my female society finch comes
down to the area in anticipation. Sometimes the male joins her,
meaning that he's also aware of and anticipating what's about to
happen even though he doesn't always come in close. Sometimes I let
the female come down and grab a worm, but sometimes not because her
wings blow the litter around making a bit of a mess. Whether I let
her or not though both birds definitely anticipate getting mealworms
when they see me begin the process.
When I'm putting my dog's food in a bowl (I'm always sure to make
LOTS of noise when doing so), she stands at her feeding spot, with
drool dripping out of her mouth.
That's nothing but a conditioned response to a signal. It's not an
emotion. The anticipation being discussed is the *emotional* state of
a person contemplating an expected event. It's a completely different
meaning of the word anticipation. Fuckwit Harrison is deliberately
equivocating on the word. His finches do not have *any* emotional
reaction at all, and the physical reaction they have does not occur
until they receive the visual signal that he is preparing food for them;
and then the response is immediate.
A little child old enough to know the days of the week who is told on
Monday that she will be taken to Disneyland on Saturday does not
require any signal to begin to experience an emotional excitement -
anticipation - on Friday afternoon.
http://phys.org/news/2013-06-older-males-fathers-mature-male.html
That paper does not say or suggest that the beetles can anticipate their
mortality. Anyway, that's the wrong meaning of anticipation.
You continue to pass plain-up bs as sophistry.

Dhu
--
Ne obliviscaris, vix ea nostra voco.
George Plimpton
2013-06-19 06:03:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dhu on Gate
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dhu on Gate
Post by George Plimpton
On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 18:14:35 -0400, Fuckwit David Harrison - *Goo* -
stupid, illiterate cracker and convicted felon, defeate
Post by d***@.
I feed mealworms to my finches a few times a week. When I
begin the process
of sifting the worms out of the litter my female society finch comes
down to the area in anticipation. Sometimes the male joins her,
meaning that he's also aware of and anticipating what's about to
happen even though he doesn't always come in close. Sometimes I let
the female come down and grab a worm, but sometimes not because her
wings blow the litter around making a bit of a mess. Whether I let
her or not though both birds definitely anticipate getting mealworms
when they see me begin the process.
When I'm putting my dog's food in a bowl (I'm always sure to make
LOTS of noise when doing so), she stands at her feeding spot, with
drool dripping out of her mouth.
That's nothing but a conditioned response to a signal. It's not an
emotion. The anticipation being discussed is the *emotional* state of
a person contemplating an expected event. It's a completely different
meaning of the word anticipation. Fuckwit Harrison is deliberately
equivocating on the word. His finches do not have *any* emotional
reaction at all, and the physical reaction they have does not occur
until they receive the visual signal that he is preparing food for them;
and then the response is immediate.
A little child old enough to know the days of the week who is told on
Monday that she will be taken to Disneyland on Saturday does not
require any signal to begin to experience an emotional excitement -
anticipation - on Friday afternoon.
http://phys.org/news/2013-06-older-males-fathers-mature-male.html
That paper does not say or suggest that the beetles can anticipate their
mortality. Anyway, that's the wrong meaning of anticipation.
You continue to
I continue to be precise and unequivocal, while the liar Fuckwit
equivocates, as do you. Actually, you're just being splenetic. I've
slapped the fuck out of you, numerous times, so you're just arguing and
thrashing because you're a prick.
Dhu on Gate
2013-06-19 06:10:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dhu on Gate
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dhu on Gate
Post by George Plimpton
On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 18:14:35 -0400, Fuckwit David Harrison - *Goo* -
stupid, illiterate cracker and convicted felon, defeate
Post by d***@.
I feed mealworms to my finches a few times a week. When I
begin the process
of sifting the worms out of the litter my female society finch
comes down to the area in anticipation. Sometimes the male joins
her, meaning that he's also aware of and anticipating what's about
to happen even though he doesn't always come in close. Sometimes I
let the female come down and grab a worm, but sometimes not
because her wings blow the litter around making a bit of a mess.
Whether I let her or not though both birds definitely anticipate
getting mealworms when they see me begin the process.
When I'm putting my dog's food in a bowl (I'm always sure to make
LOTS of noise when doing so), she stands at her feeding spot, with
drool dripping out of her mouth.
That's nothing but a conditioned response to a signal. It's not an
emotion. The anticipation being discussed is the *emotional* state
of a person contemplating an expected event. It's a completely
different meaning of the word anticipation. Fuckwit Harrison is
deliberately equivocating on the word. His finches do not have
*any* emotional reaction at all, and the physical reaction they have
does not occur until they receive the visual signal that he is
preparing food for them;
and then the response is immediate.
A little child old enough to know the days of the week who is told
on Monday that she will be taken to Disneyland on Saturday does not
require any signal to begin to experience an emotional excitement -
anticipation - on Friday afternoon.
http://phys.org/news/2013-06-older-males-fathers-mature-male.html
That paper does not say or suggest that the beetles can anticipate
their mortality. Anyway, that's the wrong meaning of anticipation.
You continue to
I continue to be precise and unequivocal, while the liar Fuckwit
equivocates, as do you. Actually, you're just being splenetic. I've
slapped the fuck out of you, numerous times, so you're just arguing and
thrashing because you're a prick.
Yab yab yab. You're fulla shit, asshat. Your arguments are semantic
bilge and you're too stupid to know when you've been shown wrong.

As to the sentience of animals, Decartes used to make claims like yours,
so I'd like to re-run some of his dog'n'pain experiments on you to see if
there is any difference in your reaction ... which I doubt.

Dhu
--
Ne obliviscaris, vix ea nostra voco.
George Plimpton
2013-06-19 06:34:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dhu on Gate
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dhu on Gate
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dhu on Gate
Post by George Plimpton
On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 18:14:35 -0400, Fuckwit David Harrison - *Goo* -
stupid, illiterate cracker and convicted felon, defeate
Post by d***@.
I feed mealworms to my finches a few times a week. When I
begin the process
of sifting the worms out of the litter my female society finch
comes down to the area in anticipation. Sometimes the male joins
her, meaning that he's also aware of and anticipating what's about
to happen even though he doesn't always come in close. Sometimes I
let the female come down and grab a worm, but sometimes not
because her wings blow the litter around making a bit of a mess.
Whether I let her or not though both birds definitely anticipate
getting mealworms when they see me begin the process.
When I'm putting my dog's food in a bowl (I'm always sure to make
LOTS of noise when doing so), she stands at her feeding spot, with
drool dripping out of her mouth.
That's nothing but a conditioned response to a signal. It's not an
emotion. The anticipation being discussed is the *emotional* state
of a person contemplating an expected event. It's a completely
different meaning of the word anticipation. Fuckwit Harrison is
deliberately equivocating on the word. His finches do not have
*any* emotional reaction at all, and the physical reaction they have
does not occur until they receive the visual signal that he is
preparing food for them;
and then the response is immediate.
A little child old enough to know the days of the week who is told
on Monday that she will be taken to Disneyland on Saturday does not
require any signal to begin to experience an emotional excitement -
anticipation - on Friday afternoon.
http://phys.org/news/2013-06-older-males-fathers-mature-male.html
That paper does not say or suggest that the beetles can anticipate
their mortality. Anyway, that's the wrong meaning of anticipation.
You continue to
I continue to be precise and unequivocal, while the liar Fuckwit
equivocates, as do you. Actually, you're just being splenetic. I've
slapped the fuck out of you, numerous times, so you're just arguing and
thrashing because you're a prick.
Yab yab yab. You're
...right. Yes, I'm right. I'm precise and cautious, two qualities that
are usually essential to being right. And I *am* right.
Dhu on Gate
2013-06-19 16:32:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dhu on Gate
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dhu on Gate
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dhu on Gate
Post by George Plimpton
On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 18:14:35 -0400, Fuckwit David Harrison -
*Goo*
-
stupid, illiterate cracker and convicted felon, defeate
Post by d***@.
I feed mealworms to my finches a few times a week. When
I begin the process
of sifting the worms out of the litter my female society finch
comes down to the area in anticipation. Sometimes the male joins
her, meaning that he's also aware of and anticipating what's
about to happen even though he doesn't always come in close.
Sometimes I let the female come down and grab a worm, but
sometimes not because her wings blow the litter around making a
bit of a mess. Whether I let her or not though both birds
definitely anticipate getting mealworms when they see me begin
the process.
When I'm putting my dog's food in a bowl (I'm always sure to make
LOTS of noise when doing so), she stands at her feeding spot,
with drool dripping out of her mouth.
That's nothing but a conditioned response to a signal. It's not
an emotion. The anticipation being discussed is the *emotional*
state of a person contemplating an expected event. It's a
completely different meaning of the word anticipation. Fuckwit
Harrison is deliberately equivocating on the word. His finches do
not have *any* emotional reaction at all, and the physical
reaction they have does not occur until they receive the visual
signal that he is preparing food for them;
and then the response is immediate.
A little child old enough to know the days of the week who is told
on Monday that she will be taken to Disneyland on Saturday does
not require any signal to begin to experience an emotional
excitement - anticipation - on Friday afternoon.
http://phys.org/news/2013-06-older-males-fathers-mature-male.html
That paper does not say or suggest that the beetles can anticipate
their mortality. Anyway, that's the wrong meaning of anticipation.
You continue to
I continue to be precise and unequivocal, while the liar Fuckwit
equivocates, as do you. Actually, you're just being splenetic. I've
slapped the fuck out of you, numerous times, so you're just arguing
and thrashing because you're a prick.
Yab yab yab. You're
...right. Yes, I'm right. I'm precise and cautious, two qualities that
are usually essential to being right. And I *am* right.
You are an anally retentive cretin who thinks that if you can make your
lips flap around something it must be right.

Dhu
--
Ne obliviscaris, vix ea nostra voco.
George Plimpton
2013-06-19 16:38:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dhu on Gate
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dhu on Gate
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dhu on Gate
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dhu on Gate
Post by George Plimpton
On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 18:14:35 -0400, Fuckwit David Harrison -
*Goo*
-
stupid, illiterate cracker and convicted felon, defeate
Post by d***@.
I feed mealworms to my finches a few times a week. When
I begin the process
of sifting the worms out of the litter my female society finch
comes down to the area in anticipation. Sometimes the male joins
her, meaning that he's also aware of and anticipating what's
about to happen even though he doesn't always come in close.
Sometimes I let the female come down and grab a worm, but
sometimes not because her wings blow the litter around making a
bit of a mess. Whether I let her or not though both birds
definitely anticipate getting mealworms when they see me begin
the process.
When I'm putting my dog's food in a bowl (I'm always sure to make
LOTS of noise when doing so), she stands at her feeding spot,
with drool dripping out of her mouth.
That's nothing but a conditioned response to a signal. It's not
an emotion. The anticipation being discussed is the *emotional*
state of a person contemplating an expected event. It's a
completely different meaning of the word anticipation. Fuckwit
Harrison is deliberately equivocating on the word. His finches do
not have *any* emotional reaction at all, and the physical
reaction they have does not occur until they receive the visual
signal that he is preparing food for them;
and then the response is immediate.
A little child old enough to know the days of the week who is told
on Monday that she will be taken to Disneyland on Saturday does
not require any signal to begin to experience an emotional
excitement - anticipation - on Friday afternoon.
http://phys.org/news/2013-06-older-males-fathers-mature-male.html
That paper does not say or suggest that the beetles can anticipate
their mortality. Anyway, that's the wrong meaning of anticipation.
You continue to
I continue to be precise and unequivocal, while the liar Fuckwit
equivocates, as do you. Actually, you're just being splenetic. I've
slapped the fuck out of you, numerous times, so you're just arguing
and thrashing because you're a prick.
Yab yab yab. You're
...right. Yes, I'm right. I'm precise and cautious, two qualities that
are usually essential to being right. And I *am* right.
You are an anally retentive cretin who
I am right, and I am dancing you around on the end of a string. You're
a fucking idiot.
George Plimpton
2013-06-19 17:12:05 UTC
Permalink
I know that Rupert does not doubt his own existence.

I know that Rupert knows he is a human being and not some other
non-human entity.

I know that Rupert knows that contrary to what Fuckwit has said, Derek
Nash, Dutch and I are three distinct persons.

I know that Rupert knows that when Fuckwit blabbers about people owing
"consideration" to livestock animals' lives, what Fuckwit really is
demanding is that people ought to want livestock animals to exist.

That's a start. As needed, we'll cover some other things that I know
Rupert knows because he has to know them - he can't not know them.
Mr.Smartypants
2013-06-19 18:54:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Plimpton
I know that Rupert does not doubt his own existence.
I know that Rupert knows he is a human being and not some other
non-human entity.
I know that Rupert knows that contrary to what Fuckwit has said, Derek
Nash, Dutch and I are three distinct persons.
I know that Rupert knows that when Fuckwit blabbers about people owing
"consideration" to livestock animals' lives, what Fuckwit really is
demanding is that people ought to want livestock animals to exist.
That's a start.  As needed, we'll cover some other things that I know
Rupert knows because he has to know them - he can't not know them.
Tell us how you think you now know the things you claim can't be known.
unknown
2013-06-19 23:57:48 UTC
Permalink
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KEEP IT THE HELL OUT OF CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS, THANKS

==========================================================
Post by MarkA
When I'm putting my dog's food in a bowl (I'm always sure to make
LOTS of noise when doing so), she stands at her feeding spot,
with drool dripping out of her mouth.
Dhu
unknown
2013-06-19 23:58:25 UTC
Permalink
==========================================================

KEEP IT THE HELL OUT OF CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS, THANKS

==========================================================
Post by George Plimpton
I continue to be precise and unequivocal, while the liar Fuckwit
unknown
2013-06-19 23:59:14 UTC
Permalink
==========================================================

KEEP IT THE HELL OUT OF CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS, THANKS

==========================================================
Post by George Plimpton
His finches do not have *any* emotional
reaction at all, and the physical reaction they have does not occur
until they receive the visual signal that he is preparing food for them;
and then the response is immediate.
Dhu
unknown
2013-06-19 23:59:43 UTC
Permalink
==========================================================

KEEP IT THE HELL OUT OF CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS, THANKS

==========================================================
SkyEyes
2013-06-19 22:03:51 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 18:14:35 -0400, Fuckwit David Harrison - *Goo* - stupid, illiterate cracker and convicted felon, defeate
     I feed mealworms to my finches a few times a week. When I begin the
     process
of sifting the worms out of the litter my female society finch comes down
to the area in anticipation. Sometimes the male joins her, meaning that
he's also aware of and anticipating what's about to happen even though he
doesn't always come in close. Sometimes I let the female come down and
grab a worm, but sometimes not because her wings blow the litter around
making a bit of a mess. Whether I let her or not though both birds
definitely anticipate getting mealworms when they see me begin the
process.
When I'm putting my dog's food in a bowl (I'm always sure to make LOTS of
noise when doing so), she stands at her feeding spot, with drool dripping
out of her mouth.
That's nothing but a conditioned response to a signal.  It's not an
emotion.  The anticipation being discussed is the *emotional* state of a
person contemplating an expected event.  It's a completely different
meaning of the word anticipation.
And *you* don't know there's *not* any emotion involved, you're just
parroting out-of-date behaviorist dogma from the 1950s, when it was
thought that animals were merely machines made of meat.

Humans are animals, and we experience emotions. It's not out of the
realm of probability that other animals experience emotions, too. In
fact, there's no reason (other than hubris, of course) to think that
they *don't*.

Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34 and A+ atheist
BAAWA Knight of the Golden Litterbox
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
skyeyes nine at cox dot net OR
skyeyes nine at yahoo dot com
d***@.
2013-06-20 22:13:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Plimpton
Post by MarkA
Post by d***@.
I feed mealworms to my finches a few times a week. When I begin the process
of sifting the worms out of the litter my female society finch comes down
to the area in anticipation. Sometimes the male joins her, meaning that
he's also aware of and anticipating what's about to happen even though he
doesn't always come in close. Sometimes I let the female come down and
grab a worm, but sometimes not because her wings blow the litter around
making a bit of a mess. Whether I let her or not though both birds
definitely anticipate getting mealworms when they see me begin the
process.
When I'm putting my dog's food in a bowl (I'm always sure to make LOTS of
noise when doing so), she stands at her feeding spot, with drool dripping
out of her mouth.
That's nothing but a conditioned response to a signal.
The conditioned response is anticipation, Goo.
Post by George Plimpton
It's not an
emotion. The anticipation being discussed is the *emotional* state of a
person contemplating an expected event.
Also finches and dogs and cats and hogs, etc......Goob.
Post by George Plimpton
It's a completely different
meaning of the word anticipation.
Anticipation is anticipation, Goo.
Post by George Plimpton
Fuckwit Harrison is deliberately
equivocating on the word. His finches do not have *any* emotional
reaction at all, and the physical reaction they have does not occur
until they receive the visual signal that he is preparing food for them;
and then the response is immediate.
A little child old enough to know the days of the week who is told on
Monday that she will be taken to Disneyland on Saturday does not require
any signal to begin to experience an emotional excitement - anticipation
- on Friday afternoon.
You're trying to pretend that the ability to understand language is the same
thing as anticipation Goober. It's not and has nothing to do with it, Goo.
George Plimpton
2013-06-20 23:14:51 UTC
Permalink
On 6/20/2013 3:13 PM, Fuckwit David Harrison - *Goo* - stupid,
illiterate cracker and convicted felon, defeated entirely in 1999 and
Post by d***@.
Post by George Plimpton
On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 18:14:35 -0400, Fuckwit David Harrison - *Goo* - stupid,
illiterate cracker and convicted felon, defeated entirely in 1999 and
Post by d***@.
I feed mealworms to my finches a few times a week. When I begin the process
of sifting the worms out of the litter my female society finch comes down
to the area in anticipation. Sometimes the male joins her, meaning that
he's also aware of and anticipating what's about to happen even though he
doesn't always come in close. Sometimes I let the female come down and
grab a worm, but sometimes not because her wings blow the litter around
making a bit of a mess. Whether I let her or not though both birds
definitely anticipate getting mealworms when they see me begin the
process.
When I'm putting my dog's food in a bowl (I'm always sure to make LOTS of
noise when doing so), she stands at her feeding spot, with drool dripping
out of her mouth.
That's nothing but a conditioned response to a signal.
The conditioned response is anticipation
No.
Post by d***@.
Post by George Plimpton
It's not an
emotion. The anticipation being discussed is the *emotional* state of a
person contemplating an expected event.
Also finches and dogs and cats and hogs
No. No non-human animals have that emotional sense called anticipation,
*Goo*.
Post by d***@.
Post by George Plimpton
It's a completely different
meaning of the word anticipation.
Anticipation is anticipation
No, *Goo*. There are different meanings, and you're trying to
equivocate between them. You fail, of course - I'm here to stop you.
Post by d***@.
Post by George Plimpton
Fuckwit Harrison is deliberately
equivocating on the word. His finches do not have *any* emotional
reaction at all, and the physical reaction they have does not occur
until they receive the visual signal that he is preparing food for them;
and then the response is immediate.
A little child old enough to know the days of the week who is told on
Monday that she will be taken to Disneyland on Saturday does not require
any signal to begin to experience an emotional excitement - anticipation
- on Friday afternoon.
You're trying to pretend that
Pretending nothing, *Goo*. The human child can experience the emotion
of anticipation. Non-human animals cannot.
unknown
2013-06-20 00:03:24 UTC
Permalink
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==========================================================

On 6/18/2013 4:47 PM, MarkA AKA Leonardo Been
<***@yahoo.com>
wrote:



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Newsgroups:
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Subject: Re: anticipation in finches
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 19:47:09 -0400
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d***@.
2013-06-20 22:13:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by MarkA
Post by d***@.
I feed mealworms to my finches a few times a week. When I begin the process
of sifting the worms out of the litter my female society finch comes down
to the area in anticipation. Sometimes the male joins her, meaning that
he's also aware of and anticipating what's about to happen even though he
doesn't always come in close. Sometimes I let the female come down and
grab a worm, but sometimes not because her wings blow the litter around
making a bit of a mess. Whether I let her or not though both birds
definitely anticipate getting mealworms when they see me begin the
process.
When I'm putting my dog's food in a bowl (I'm always sure to make LOTS of
noise when doing so), she stands at her feeding spot, with drool dripping
out of her mouth.
Pavlov proved anticipation in dogs in a similar way, and salivation was a
big part of it. He did it so long ago and it's so well known that it's a wonder
even someone as stupid and naive as Goo is clueless about it:

"The dog was restrained in a harness with its head held still so the tube would
not be ripped out. The researcher puffed meat powder into the dog's mouth to
start the digestive process. Dogs salivate ("slobber") when they eat, so the
meat powder stimulated lots of saliva. The saliva dripped out of the tube into a
beaker where it could be measured.

With a set-up like this, Pavlov probably could not help but notice that dogs
anticipated their meals. When Pavlov or an assistant entered the laboratory
carrying meat powder, the saliva began dripping out of the tube. Pavlov realized
this was significant. A biological reflex (salivation) was being modified by
something psychological, namely, anticipation."

http://www.intropsych.com/ch05_conditioning/pavlovs_dog.html
George Plimpton
2013-06-20 23:15:03 UTC
Permalink
On 6/20/2013 3:13 PM, Fuckwit David Harrison - *Goo* - stupid,
illiterate cracker and convicted felon, defeated entirely in 1999 and
Post by d***@.
Post by MarkA
Post by d***@.
I feed mealworms to my finches a few times a week. When I begin the process
of sifting the worms out of the litter my female society finch comes down
to the area in anticipation. Sometimes the male joins her, meaning that
he's also aware of and anticipating what's about to happen even though he
doesn't always come in close. Sometimes I let the female come down and
grab a worm, but sometimes not because her wings blow the litter around
making a bit of a mess. Whether I let her or not though both birds
definitely anticipate getting mealworms when they see me begin the
process.
When I'm putting my dog's food in a bowl (I'm always sure to make LOTS of
noise when doing so), she stands at her feeding spot, with drool dripping
out of her mouth.
Pavlov proved anticipation in dogs
No, he did not, *Goo*.
k***@baawa.com
2013-06-19 03:12:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@.
I feed mealworms to my finches a few times a week. When I begin the process
of sifting the worms out of the litter my female society finch comes down to the
area in anticipation. Sometimes the male joins her, meaning that he's also aware
of and anticipating what's about to happen even though he doesn't always come in
close. Sometimes I let the female come down and grab a worm, but sometimes not
because her wings blow the litter around making a bit of a mess. Whether I let
her or not though both birds definitely anticipate getting mealworms when they
see me begin the process.
It's anticipation by a conditioned signal. My cat always come when
he hears the can opener. It may be a can of beans or a can of cat
food.

If you think animals have human like emotions and can rationalize
events, you are an idiot.

Warlord Steve
BAAWA
George Plimpton
2013-06-19 04:36:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by k***@baawa.com
Post by d***@.
I feed mealworms to my finches a few times a week. When I begin the process
of sifting the worms out of the litter my female society finch comes down to the
area in anticipation. Sometimes the male joins her, meaning that he's also aware
of and anticipating what's about to happen even though he doesn't always come in
close. Sometimes I let the female come down and grab a worm, but sometimes not
because her wings blow the litter around making a bit of a mess. Whether I let
her or not though both birds definitely anticipate getting mealworms when they
see me begin the process.
It's anticipation by a conditioned signal. My cat always come when
he hears the can opener. It may be a can of beans or a can of cat
food.
If you think animals have human like emotions and can rationalize
events, you are an idiot.
That's exactly what Fuckwit thinks, and he is indeed an idiot. However,
in this case, Fuckwit is equivocating on different meanings of the word
anticipation. One sense of the word is an emotion people experience as
they *contemplate* an event they expect to occur. It is the *emotion*
that arises from the contemplation of the expected event. The meaning
of anticipation that Fuckwit is using is the expectation itself, not the
emotion arising from the contemplation of it. These distinctions are
simply too far above Fuckwit's mental abilities.

The finch is not experiencing any emotional state. It is not
contemplating anything about being fed. It simply perceives the signal
- Fuckwit clumsily fucking around with the mealworms - and, through
operant conditioning, expects that it will soon eat. There is no
emotional component to it at all.

Fuckwit is a fool and an idiot, in addition to being a lying cracker.
SkyEyes
2013-06-19 22:09:34 UTC
Permalink
   I feed mealworms to my finches a few times a week. When I begin the process
of sifting the worms out of the litter my female society finch comes down to the
area in anticipation. Sometimes the male joins her, meaning that he's also aware
of and anticipating what's about to happen even though he doesn't always come in
close. Sometimes I let the female come down and grab a worm, but sometimes not
because her wings blow the litter around making a bit of a mess. Whether I let
her or not though both birds definitely anticipate getting mealworms when they
see me begin the process.
   It's anticipation by a conditioned signal. My cat always come when
he hears the can opener. It may be a can of beans or a can of cat
food.
   If you think animals have human like emotions and can rationalize
events, you are an idiot.
Neuroscientists and animal behaviorists currently say that the average
dog has the same degree of consciousness and sentience as a 3-year-old
human child. Furthermore, mammals, birds, and reptiles have the same
brain structures (particularly mammals and birds) that humans have,
and that are known to play a part in the production of emotion. It's
pretty silly to think that animals *don't* have emotions. And they
can, quite clearly, rationalize to a degree. If you think they can't,
you're not paying sufficient attention.

It's nothing but hubris to claim that humans are the only animals that
have emotions, and it stems from the same arguments that theists use
to claim that humans have "souls" and animals do not.

Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34 and A+ atheist
BAAWA Knight of the Golden Litterbox
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
skyeyes nine at cox dot net OR
skyeyes nine at yahoo dot com
k***@baawa.com
2013-06-20 03:23:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by SkyEyes
   If you think animals have human like emotions and can rationalize
events, you are an idiot.
Neuroscientists and animal behaviorists currently say that the average
dog has the same degree of consciousness and sentience as a 3-year-old
human child. Furthermore, mammals, birds, and reptiles have the same
brain structures (particularly mammals and birds) that humans have,
and that are known to play a part in the production of emotion. It's
pretty silly to think that animals *don't* have emotions. And they
can, quite clearly, rationalize to a degree. If you think they can't,
you're not paying sufficient attention.
It's nothing but hubris to claim that humans are the only animals that
have emotions, and it stems from the same arguments that theists use
to claim that humans have "souls" and animals do not.
I said 'human like' emotions. Humans have a tendency to give human
emotional qualities to non-human animals.

You can kick a dog every day and it will still 'love' you because
you feed it. It's not love, it's a food source and a conditioned
response.

Cats purr. Clearly an animal response to being content. Is the cat
'happy' in the human sense? No. It's instinctive animal behavior.

There are some similarities of emotions with primates but it's
still not human. And since we are related to them it shouldn't a big
surprise.

Warlord Steve
BAAWA
SkyEyes
2013-06-20 05:40:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by SkyEyes
   If you think animals have human like emotions and can rationalize
events, you are an idiot.
Neuroscientists and animal behaviorists currently say that the average
dog has the same degree of consciousness and sentience as a 3-year-old
human child.  Furthermore, mammals, birds, and reptiles have the same
brain structures (particularly mammals and birds) that humans have,
and that are known to play a part in the production of emotion.  It's
pretty silly to think that animals *don't* have emotions.  And they
can, quite clearly, rationalize to a degree.  If you think they can't,
you're not paying sufficient attention.
It's nothing but hubris to claim that humans are the only animals that
have emotions, and it stems from the same arguments that theists use
to claim that humans have "souls" and animals do not.
   I said 'human like' emotions. Humans have a tendency to give human
emotional qualities to non-human animals.
How is a human emotion different from an animal emotion? I know it
was fashionable to denigrate the fact that animals have emotions back
in the '50s and '60s, but we know better now.
   You can kick a dog every day and it will still 'love' you because
you feed it. It's not love, it's a food source and a conditioned
response.
Then it *doesn't* "love" you. And by the way? You can't do that.
The dog will eventually turn on you.
   Cats purr. Clearly an animal response to being content. Is the cat
'happy' in the human sense? No. It's instinctive animal behavior.
Actually, cats purr for a variety of reasons, only one of which is
contentment. Another reason cats purr is under stressful
circumstances, as a self-calming behavior. I've seen cats purr just
moments before dying, and believe me, it wasn't out of contentment.
   There are some similarities of emotions with primates but it's
still not human. And since we are related to them it shouldn't a big
surprise.
An emotion is an emotion. Stop trying to elevate human emotions to a
rarified plane; that old saw won't wash anymore. Animals feel
emotions very similar to what humans feel. We are not unique.

You have a very 20th century view of animal behavior. There are a
number of studies out there now that can bring you up to date, Steve.
I suggest that you catch yourself up on the newest, latest, and
greatest in the field.

Brenda
George Plimpton
2013-06-20 05:57:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
If you think animals have human like emotions and can rationalize
events, you are an idiot.
Neuroscientists and animal behaviorists currently say that the average
dog has the same degree of consciousness and sentience as a 3-year-old
human child. Furthermore, mammals, birds, and reptiles have the same
brain structures (particularly mammals and birds) that humans have,
and that are known to play a part in the production of emotion. It's
pretty silly to think that animals *don't* have emotions. And they
can, quite clearly, rationalize to a degree. If you think they can't,
you're not paying sufficient attention.
It's nothing but hubris to claim that humans are the only animals that
have emotions, and it stems from the same arguments that theists use
to claim that humans have "souls" and animals do not.
I said 'human like' emotions. Humans have a tendency to give human
emotional qualities to non-human animals.
How is a human emotion different from an animal emotion? I know it
was fashionable to denigrate the fact that animals have emotions back
in the '50s and '60s, but we know better now.
No, you believe differently, but that's because of your blind religious
faith.

No one ever said animals don't experience any emotions. The emotions
they experience are the very primitive and basic ones: fear, affection,
happiness. They do not experience complex emotions like remorse, envy,
contempt, Schadenfreude, pride. All of those complex emotions require a
degree of self awareness that animals lack.
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
You can kick a dog every day and it will still 'love' you because
you feed it. It's not love, it's a food source and a conditioned
response.
Then it *doesn't* "love" you. And by the way? You can't do that.
The dog will eventually turn on you.
Depends on how hard you kick it.

I don't think you know fucky-doo about animals. You embrace some kind
of mystical bullshit about them, and that prevents you from acquiring
real knowledge.
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
There are some similarities of emotions with primates but it's
still not human. And since we are related to them it shouldn't a big
surprise.
An emotion is an emotion.
False.
Post by SkyEyes
Stop trying to elevate human emotions to a
rarified plane; that old saw won't wash anymore. Animals feel
emotions very similar to what humans feel. We are not unique.
Animals do not experience the complex emotions that humans do.

Your misanthropic beliefs are rooted in your bizarre religious views.
Jason
2013-06-20 21:00:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Plimpton
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
If you think animals have human like emotions and can rationalize
events, you are an idiot.
Neuroscientists and animal behaviorists currently say that the average
dog has the same degree of consciousness and sentience as a 3-year-old
human child. Furthermore, mammals, birds, and reptiles have the same
brain structures (particularly mammals and birds) that humans have,
and that are known to play a part in the production of emotion. It's
pretty silly to think that animals *don't* have emotions. And they
can, quite clearly, rationalize to a degree. If you think they can't,
you're not paying sufficient attention.
It's nothing but hubris to claim that humans are the only animals that
have emotions, and it stems from the same arguments that theists use
to claim that humans have "souls" and animals do not.
I said 'human like' emotions. Humans have a tendency to give human
emotional qualities to non-human animals.
How is a human emotion different from an animal emotion? I know it
was fashionable to denigrate the fact that animals have emotions back
in the '50s and '60s, but we know better now.
No, you believe differently, but that's because of your blind religious
faith.
No one ever said animals don't experience any emotions. The emotions
they experience are the very primitive and basic ones: fear, affection,
happiness. They do not experience complex emotions like remorse, envy,
contempt, Schadenfreude, pride. All of those complex emotions require a
degree of self awareness that animals lack.
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
You can kick a dog every day and it will still 'love' you because
you feed it. It's not love, it's a food source and a conditioned
response.
Then it *doesn't* "love" you. And by the way? You can't do that.
The dog will eventually turn on you.
Depends on how hard you kick it.
I don't think you know fucky-doo about animals. You embrace some kind
of mystical bullshit about them, and that prevents you from acquiring
real knowledge.
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
There are some similarities of emotions with primates but it's
still not human. And since we are related to them it shouldn't a big
surprise.
An emotion is an emotion.
False.
Post by SkyEyes
Stop trying to elevate human emotions to a
rarified plane; that old saw won't wash anymore. Animals feel
emotions very similar to what humans feel. We are not unique.
Animals do not experience the complex emotions that humans do.
Your misanthropic beliefs are rooted in your bizarre religious views.
You must have never had a dog. They get excited when getting ready for a
walk. They get depressed when their favorite human goes to work. They get
excited when their favorite human comes home from work. My neighbor has a
German Shepard that suffers from anxiety.
George Plimpton
2013-06-20 21:15:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jason
Post by George Plimpton
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
If you think animals have human like emotions and can rationalize
events, you are an idiot.
Neuroscientists and animal behaviorists currently say that the average
dog has the same degree of consciousness and sentience as a 3-year-old
human child. Furthermore, mammals, birds, and reptiles have the same
brain structures (particularly mammals and birds) that humans have,
and that are known to play a part in the production of emotion. It's
pretty silly to think that animals *don't* have emotions. And they
can, quite clearly, rationalize to a degree. If you think they can't,
you're not paying sufficient attention.
It's nothing but hubris to claim that humans are the only animals that
have emotions, and it stems from the same arguments that theists use
to claim that humans have "souls" and animals do not.
I said 'human like' emotions. Humans have a tendency to give human
emotional qualities to non-human animals.
How is a human emotion different from an animal emotion? I know it
was fashionable to denigrate the fact that animals have emotions back
in the '50s and '60s, but we know better now.
No, you believe differently, but that's because of your blind religious
faith.
No one ever said animals don't experience any emotions. The emotions
they experience are the very primitive and basic ones: fear, affection,
happiness. They do not experience complex emotions like remorse, envy,
contempt, Schadenfreude, pride. All of those complex emotions require a
degree of self awareness that animals lack.
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
You can kick a dog every day and it will still 'love' you because
you feed it. It's not love, it's a food source and a conditioned
response.
Then it *doesn't* "love" you. And by the way? You can't do that.
The dog will eventually turn on you.
Depends on how hard you kick it.
I don't think you know fucky-doo about animals. You embrace some kind
of mystical bullshit about them, and that prevents you from acquiring
real knowledge.
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
There are some similarities of emotions with primates but it's
still not human. And since we are related to them it shouldn't a big
surprise.
An emotion is an emotion.
False.
Post by SkyEyes
Stop trying to elevate human emotions to a
rarified plane; that old saw won't wash anymore. Animals feel
emotions very similar to what humans feel. We are not unique.
Animals do not experience the complex emotions that humans do.
Your misanthropic beliefs are rooted in your bizarre religious views.
You must have never had a dog. They get excited when getting ready for a
walk. They get depressed when their favorite human goes to work. They get
excited when their favorite human comes home from work. My neighbor has a
German Shepard that suffers from anxiety.
I have a dog. The dog gets excited about the things you said, but does
not get depressed about being left. No dog does. The German shepherd
dog isn't exhibiting anxiety. It's just a nervous, high-strong dog;
plenty like it.

You're still missing the point. Animals can experience a few basic,
primitive emotions. They can't experience other, more complex emotions
because they lack the self awareness and the awareness of time, space
and social relations that people have. Take envy, for example. Animals
don't feel it. They might want the thing that another animal has, but
they do not envy the other animal. Beyond merely wanting the thing the
other person has, envy incorporates an element of thinking the other
person doesn't deserve to have it, while the person who doesn't have it
feels he deserves it more than the person who has it. Animals are
entirely incapable of thinking about undeserved benefits.
Jason
2013-06-21 00:45:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Jason
Post by George Plimpton
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
If you think animals have human like emotions and can rationalize
events, you are an idiot.
Neuroscientists and animal behaviorists currently say that the average
dog has the same degree of consciousness and sentience as a 3-year-old
human child. Furthermore, mammals, birds, and reptiles have the same
brain structures (particularly mammals and birds) that humans have,
and that are known to play a part in the production of emotion. It's
pretty silly to think that animals *don't* have emotions. And they
can, quite clearly, rationalize to a degree. If you think they can't,
you're not paying sufficient attention.
It's nothing but hubris to claim that humans are the only animals that
have emotions, and it stems from the same arguments that theists use
to claim that humans have "souls" and animals do not.
I said 'human like' emotions. Humans have a tendency to give human
emotional qualities to non-human animals.
How is a human emotion different from an animal emotion? I know it
was fashionable to denigrate the fact that animals have emotions back
in the '50s and '60s, but we know better now.
No, you believe differently, but that's because of your blind religious
faith.
No one ever said animals don't experience any emotions. The emotions
they experience are the very primitive and basic ones: fear, affection,
happiness. They do not experience complex emotions like remorse, envy,
contempt, Schadenfreude, pride. All of those complex emotions require a
degree of self awareness that animals lack.
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
You can kick a dog every day and it will still 'love' you because
you feed it. It's not love, it's a food source and a conditioned
response.
Then it *doesn't* "love" you. And by the way? You can't do that.
The dog will eventually turn on you.
Depends on how hard you kick it.
I don't think you know fucky-doo about animals. You embrace some kind
of mystical bullshit about them, and that prevents you from acquiring
real knowledge.
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
There are some similarities of emotions with primates but it's
still not human. And since we are related to them it shouldn't a big
surprise.
An emotion is an emotion.
False.
Post by SkyEyes
Stop trying to elevate human emotions to a
rarified plane; that old saw won't wash anymore. Animals feel
emotions very similar to what humans feel. We are not unique.
Animals do not experience the complex emotions that humans do.
Your misanthropic beliefs are rooted in your bizarre religious views.
You must have never had a dog. They get excited when getting ready for a
walk. They get depressed when their favorite human goes to work. They get
excited when their favorite human comes home from work. My neighbor has a
German Shepard that suffers from anxiety.
I have a dog. The dog gets excited about the things you said, but does
not get depressed about being left. No dog does. The German shepherd
dog isn't exhibiting anxiety. It's just a nervous, high-strong dog;
plenty like it.
You're still missing the point. Animals can experience a few basic,
primitive emotions. They can't experience other, more complex emotions
because they lack the self awareness and the awareness of time, space
and social relations that people have. Take envy, for example. Animals
don't feel it. They might want the thing that another animal has, but
they do not envy the other animal. Beyond merely wanting the thing the
other person has, envy incorporates an element of thinking the other
person doesn't deserve to have it, while the person who doesn't have it
feels he deserves it more than the person who has it. Animals are
entirely incapable of thinking about undeserved benefits.
Since you have a dog, you should know they experiece happieness and
sadness. The happieness is even fully displayed when they start wagging
their tails. It appears to be a natural response to pleasure or
happieness.

I had to watch the German Shepard while the owner was going shopping. The
dog whined like a little child and got very excited when the dog heard her
master's pickup truck pull into the drive way.
Dutch
2013-06-21 00:51:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jason
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Jason
Post by George Plimpton
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
If you think animals have human like emotions and can rationalize
events, you are an idiot.
Neuroscientists and animal behaviorists currently say that the average
dog has the same degree of consciousness and sentience as a 3-year-old
human child. Furthermore, mammals, birds, and reptiles have the same
brain structures (particularly mammals and birds) that humans have,
and that are known to play a part in the production of emotion.
It's
pretty silly to think that animals *don't* have emotions. And they
can, quite clearly, rationalize to a degree. If you think they can't,
you're not paying sufficient attention.
It's nothing but hubris to claim that humans are the only animals that
have emotions, and it stems from the same arguments that theists use
to claim that humans have "souls" and animals do not.
I said 'human like' emotions. Humans have a tendency to give human
emotional qualities to non-human animals.
How is a human emotion different from an animal emotion? I know it
was fashionable to denigrate the fact that animals have emotions back
in the '50s and '60s, but we know better now.
No, you believe differently, but that's because of your blind religious
faith.
No one ever said animals don't experience any emotions. The emotions
they experience are the very primitive and basic ones: fear, affection,
happiness. They do not experience complex emotions like remorse, envy,
contempt, Schadenfreude, pride. All of those complex emotions require a
degree of self awareness that animals lack.
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
You can kick a dog every day and it will still 'love' you because
you feed it. It's not love, it's a food source and a conditioned
response.
Then it *doesn't* "love" you. And by the way? You can't do that.
The dog will eventually turn on you.
Depends on how hard you kick it.
I don't think you know fucky-doo about animals. You embrace some kind
of mystical bullshit about them, and that prevents you from acquiring
real knowledge.
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
There are some similarities of emotions with primates but it's
still not human. And since we are related to them it shouldn't a big
surprise.
An emotion is an emotion.
False.
Post by SkyEyes
Stop trying to elevate human emotions to a
rarified plane; that old saw won't wash anymore. Animals feel
emotions very similar to what humans feel. We are not unique.
Animals do not experience the complex emotions that humans do.
Your misanthropic beliefs are rooted in your bizarre religious views.
You must have never had a dog. They get excited when getting ready for a
walk. They get depressed when their favorite human goes to work. They get
excited when their favorite human comes home from work. My neighbor has a
German Shepard that suffers from anxiety.
I have a dog. The dog gets excited about the things you said, but does
not get depressed about being left. No dog does. The German shepherd
dog isn't exhibiting anxiety. It's just a nervous, high-strong dog;
plenty like it.
You're still missing the point. Animals can experience a few basic,
primitive emotions. They can't experience other, more complex emotions
because they lack the self awareness and the awareness of time, space
and social relations that people have. Take envy, for example. Animals
don't feel it. They might want the thing that another animal has, but
they do not envy the other animal. Beyond merely wanting the thing the
other person has, envy incorporates an element of thinking the other
person doesn't deserve to have it, while the person who doesn't have it
feels he deserves it more than the person who has it. Animals are
entirely incapable of thinking about undeserved benefits.
Since you have a dog, you should know they experiece happieness and
sadness. The happieness is even fully displayed when they start wagging
their tails. It appears to be a natural response to pleasure or
happieness.
I had to watch the German Shepard while the owner was going shopping. The
dog whined like a little child and got very excited when the dog heard her
master's pickup truck pull into the drive way.
Reacting with positive excitement at a positive cue is purely a Pavlovian
response. It represents a very basic emotion not unlike a "flight or fight"
response to a threat.




.
Jason
2013-06-21 01:34:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dutch
Post by Jason
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Jason
Post by George Plimpton
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
If you think animals have human like emotions and can rationalize
events, you are an idiot.
Neuroscientists and animal behaviorists currently say that the average
dog has the same degree of consciousness and sentience as a 3-year-old
human child. Furthermore, mammals, birds, and reptiles have the same
brain structures (particularly mammals and birds) that humans have,
and that are known to play a part in the production of emotion.
It's
pretty silly to think that animals *don't* have emotions. And they
can, quite clearly, rationalize to a degree. If you think they can't,
you're not paying sufficient attention.
It's nothing but hubris to claim that humans are the only animals that
have emotions, and it stems from the same arguments that theists use
to claim that humans have "souls" and animals do not.
I said 'human like' emotions. Humans have a tendency to give human
emotional qualities to non-human animals.
How is a human emotion different from an animal emotion? I know it
was fashionable to denigrate the fact that animals have emotions back
in the '50s and '60s, but we know better now.
No, you believe differently, but that's because of your blind religious
faith.
No one ever said animals don't experience any emotions. The emotions
they experience are the very primitive and basic ones: fear, affection,
happiness. They do not experience complex emotions like remorse, envy,
contempt, Schadenfreude, pride. All of those complex emotions require a
degree of self awareness that animals lack.
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
You can kick a dog every day and it will still 'love' you because
you feed it. It's not love, it's a food source and a conditioned
response.
Then it *doesn't* "love" you. And by the way? You can't do that.
The dog will eventually turn on you.
Depends on how hard you kick it.
I don't think you know fucky-doo about animals. You embrace some kind
of mystical bullshit about them, and that prevents you from acquiring
real knowledge.
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
There are some similarities of emotions with primates but it's
still not human. And since we are related to them it shouldn't a big
surprise.
An emotion is an emotion.
False.
Post by SkyEyes
Stop trying to elevate human emotions to a
rarified plane; that old saw won't wash anymore. Animals feel
emotions very similar to what humans feel. We are not unique.
Animals do not experience the complex emotions that humans do.
Your misanthropic beliefs are rooted in your bizarre religious views.
You must have never had a dog. They get excited when getting ready for a
walk. They get depressed when their favorite human goes to work. They get
excited when their favorite human comes home from work. My neighbor has a
German Shepard that suffers from anxiety.
I have a dog. The dog gets excited about the things you said, but does
not get depressed about being left. No dog does. The German shepherd
dog isn't exhibiting anxiety. It's just a nervous, high-strong dog;
plenty like it.
You're still missing the point. Animals can experience a few basic,
primitive emotions. They can't experience other, more complex emotions
because they lack the self awareness and the awareness of time, space
and social relations that people have. Take envy, for example. Animals
don't feel it. They might want the thing that another animal has, but
they do not envy the other animal. Beyond merely wanting the thing the
other person has, envy incorporates an element of thinking the other
person doesn't deserve to have it, while the person who doesn't have it
feels he deserves it more than the person who has it. Animals are
entirely incapable of thinking about undeserved benefits.
Since you have a dog, you should know they experiece happieness and
sadness. The happieness is even fully displayed when they start wagging
their tails. It appears to be a natural response to pleasure or
happieness.
I had to watch the German Shepard while the owner was going shopping. The
dog whined like a little child and got very excited when the dog heard her
master's pickup truck pull into the drive way.
Reacting with positive excitement at a positive cue is purely a Pavlovian
response. It represents a very basic emotion not unlike a "flight or fight"
response to a threat.
.
As someone said, dogs are a lot like three year old normal children. They
also suffer from such things as separation anxiety--just like my
neighbor's german sheapard dog. Three year old kids also get excited when
their mother or father comes home from work--just like a dog.
George Plimpton
2013-06-21 04:00:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jason
Post by Dutch
Post by Jason
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Jason
Post by George Plimpton
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
If you think animals have human like emotions and can rationalize
events, you are an idiot.
Neuroscientists and animal behaviorists currently say that the average
dog has the same degree of consciousness and sentience as a 3-year-old
human child. Furthermore, mammals, birds, and reptiles have the same
brain structures (particularly mammals and birds) that humans have,
and that are known to play a part in the production of emotion.
It's
pretty silly to think that animals *don't* have emotions. And they
can, quite clearly, rationalize to a degree. If you think they can't,
you're not paying sufficient attention.
It's nothing but hubris to claim that humans are the only animals that
have emotions, and it stems from the same arguments that theists use
to claim that humans have "souls" and animals do not.
I said 'human like' emotions. Humans have a tendency to give human
emotional qualities to non-human animals.
How is a human emotion different from an animal emotion? I know it
was fashionable to denigrate the fact that animals have emotions back
in the '50s and '60s, but we know better now.
No, you believe differently, but that's because of your blind religious
faith.
No one ever said animals don't experience any emotions. The emotions
they experience are the very primitive and basic ones: fear, affection,
happiness. They do not experience complex emotions like remorse, envy,
contempt, Schadenfreude, pride. All of those complex emotions require a
degree of self awareness that animals lack.
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
You can kick a dog every day and it will still 'love' you because
you feed it. It's not love, it's a food source and a conditioned
response.
Then it *doesn't* "love" you. And by the way? You can't do that.
The dog will eventually turn on you.
Depends on how hard you kick it.
I don't think you know fucky-doo about animals. You embrace some kind
of mystical bullshit about them, and that prevents you from acquiring
real knowledge.
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
There are some similarities of emotions with primates but it's
still not human. And since we are related to them it shouldn't a big
surprise.
An emotion is an emotion.
False.
Post by SkyEyes
Stop trying to elevate human emotions to a
rarified plane; that old saw won't wash anymore. Animals feel
emotions very similar to what humans feel. We are not unique.
Animals do not experience the complex emotions that humans do.
Your misanthropic beliefs are rooted in your bizarre religious views.
You must have never had a dog. They get excited when getting ready for a
walk. They get depressed when their favorite human goes to work. They get
excited when their favorite human comes home from work. My neighbor has a
German Shepard that suffers from anxiety.
I have a dog. The dog gets excited about the things you said, but does
not get depressed about being left. No dog does. The German shepherd
dog isn't exhibiting anxiety. It's just a nervous, high-strong dog;
plenty like it.
You're still missing the point. Animals can experience a few basic,
primitive emotions. They can't experience other, more complex emotions
because they lack the self awareness and the awareness of time, space
and social relations that people have. Take envy, for example. Animals
don't feel it. They might want the thing that another animal has, but
they do not envy the other animal. Beyond merely wanting the thing the
other person has, envy incorporates an element of thinking the other
person doesn't deserve to have it, while the person who doesn't have it
feels he deserves it more than the person who has it. Animals are
entirely incapable of thinking about undeserved benefits.
Since you have a dog, you should know they experiece happieness and
sadness. The happieness is even fully displayed when they start wagging
their tails. It appears to be a natural response to pleasure or
happieness.
I had to watch the German Shepard while the owner was going shopping. The
dog whined like a little child and got very excited when the dog heard her
master's pickup truck pull into the drive way.
Reacting with positive excitement at a positive cue is purely a Pavlovian
response. It represents a very basic emotion not unlike a "flight or fight"
response to a threat.
.
As someone said, dogs are a lot like three year old normal children.
The woman who said that is full of shit. A normal three year old child
has reasoning ability far beyond any dog's.
Post by Jason
They also suffer from such things as separation anxiety--just like my
neighbor's german sheapard dog. Three year old kids also get excited when
their mother or father comes home from work--just like a dog.
Three year old children can experience *anticipation* over their parents
returning home even *without* any signals. They aren't merely reacting
to the signal of the parents' arrival, as a dog does; the children can
exhibit anticipatory happy excitement at the *prospect* of the parents'
arrival, something no dog or any other animal can do.
Dutch
2013-06-21 04:28:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jason
As someone said, dogs are a lot like three year old normal children. They
also suffer from such things as separation anxiety--just like my
neighbor's german sheapard dog. Three year old kids also get excited when
their mother or father comes home from work--just like a dog.
I really don't see what useful purpose is served by comparing a three year
old human child and a dog. The human child has within it the capacity to
reach for the stars, the dogs basic responses are fixed for life. Dogs have
amazing senses, physical abilities and instincts that we can't come close
to.
George Plimpton
2013-06-21 03:57:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jason
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Jason
Post by George Plimpton
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
If you think animals have human like emotions and can rationalize
events, you are an idiot.
Neuroscientists and animal behaviorists currently say that the average
dog has the same degree of consciousness and sentience as a 3-year-old
human child. Furthermore, mammals, birds, and reptiles have the same
brain structures (particularly mammals and birds) that humans have,
and that are known to play a part in the production of emotion. It's
pretty silly to think that animals *don't* have emotions. And they
can, quite clearly, rationalize to a degree. If you think they can't,
you're not paying sufficient attention.
It's nothing but hubris to claim that humans are the only animals that
have emotions, and it stems from the same arguments that theists use
to claim that humans have "souls" and animals do not.
I said 'human like' emotions. Humans have a tendency to give human
emotional qualities to non-human animals.
How is a human emotion different from an animal emotion? I know it
was fashionable to denigrate the fact that animals have emotions back
in the '50s and '60s, but we know better now.
No, you believe differently, but that's because of your blind religious
faith.
No one ever said animals don't experience any emotions. The emotions
they experience are the very primitive and basic ones: fear, affection,
happiness. They do not experience complex emotions like remorse, envy,
contempt, Schadenfreude, pride. All of those complex emotions require a
degree of self awareness that animals lack.
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
You can kick a dog every day and it will still 'love' you because
you feed it. It's not love, it's a food source and a conditioned
response.
Then it *doesn't* "love" you. And by the way? You can't do that.
The dog will eventually turn on you.
Depends on how hard you kick it.
I don't think you know fucky-doo about animals. You embrace some kind
of mystical bullshit about them, and that prevents you from acquiring
real knowledge.
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
There are some similarities of emotions with primates but it's
still not human. And since we are related to them it shouldn't a big
surprise.
An emotion is an emotion.
False.
Post by SkyEyes
Stop trying to elevate human emotions to a
rarified plane; that old saw won't wash anymore. Animals feel
emotions very similar to what humans feel. We are not unique.
Animals do not experience the complex emotions that humans do.
Your misanthropic beliefs are rooted in your bizarre religious views.
You must have never had a dog. They get excited when getting ready for a
walk. They get depressed when their favorite human goes to work. They get
excited when their favorite human comes home from work. My neighbor has a
German Shepard that suffers from anxiety.
I have a dog. The dog gets excited about the things you said, but does
not get depressed about being left. No dog does. The German shepherd
dog isn't exhibiting anxiety. It's just a nervous, high-strong dog;
plenty like it.
You're still missing the point. Animals can experience a few basic,
primitive emotions. They can't experience other, more complex emotions
because they lack the self awareness and the awareness of time, space
and social relations that people have. Take envy, for example. Animals
don't feel it. They might want the thing that another animal has, but
they do not envy the other animal. Beyond merely wanting the thing the
other person has, envy incorporates an element of thinking the other
person doesn't deserve to have it, while the person who doesn't have it
feels he deserves it more than the person who has it. Animals are
entirely incapable of thinking about undeserved benefits.
Since you have a dog, you should know they experiece happieness and
sadness.
Not in dispute. This isn't about simple emotions like those. Many
animals experience the simple and basic emotions such as happiness,
anger, fear. They *don't* experience more complex emotions such as
remorse, embarrassment, gratitude, bitterness, envy...or anticipation.
Dutch
2013-06-20 21:14:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jason
Post by George Plimpton
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
If you think animals have human like emotions and can rationalize
events, you are an idiot.
Neuroscientists and animal behaviorists currently say that the average
dog has the same degree of consciousness and sentience as a 3-year-old
human child. Furthermore, mammals, birds, and reptiles have the same
brain structures (particularly mammals and birds) that humans have,
and that are known to play a part in the production of emotion. It's
pretty silly to think that animals *don't* have emotions. And they
can, quite clearly, rationalize to a degree. If you think they can't,
you're not paying sufficient attention.
It's nothing but hubris to claim that humans are the only animals that
have emotions, and it stems from the same arguments that theists use
to claim that humans have "souls" and animals do not.
I said 'human like' emotions. Humans have a tendency to give human
emotional qualities to non-human animals.
How is a human emotion different from an animal emotion? I know it
was fashionable to denigrate the fact that animals have emotions back
in the '50s and '60s, but we know better now.
No, you believe differently, but that's because of your blind religious
faith.
No one ever said animals don't experience any emotions. The emotions
they experience are the very primitive and basic ones: fear, affection,
happiness. They do not experience complex emotions like remorse, envy,
contempt, Schadenfreude, pride. All of those complex emotions require a
degree of self awareness that animals lack.
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
You can kick a dog every day and it will still 'love' you because
you feed it. It's not love, it's a food source and a conditioned
response.
Then it *doesn't* "love" you. And by the way? You can't do that.
The dog will eventually turn on you.
Depends on how hard you kick it.
I don't think you know fucky-doo about animals. You embrace some kind
of mystical bullshit about them, and that prevents you from acquiring
real knowledge.
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
There are some similarities of emotions with primates but it's
still not human. And since we are related to them it shouldn't a big
surprise.
An emotion is an emotion.
False.
Post by SkyEyes
Stop trying to elevate human emotions to a
rarified plane; that old saw won't wash anymore. Animals feel
emotions very similar to what humans feel. We are not unique.
Animals do not experience the complex emotions that humans do.
Your misanthropic beliefs are rooted in your bizarre religious views.
You must have never had a dog. They get excited when getting ready for a
walk. They get depressed when their favorite human goes to work. They get
excited when their favorite human comes home from work. My neighbor has a
German Shepard that suffers from anxiety.
Excitement isn't a complex emotion, neither is nervousness. Feeling positive
or negative in response to various stimuli are also basic responses.
George Plimpton
2013-06-20 21:43:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dutch
Post by Jason
Post by k***@baawa.com
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
Post by SkyEyes
If you think animals have human like emotions and can >>>>
rationalize
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
Post by SkyEyes
events, you are an idiot.
Neuroscientists and animal behaviorists currently say that the average
dog has the same degree of consciousness and sentience as a >>>
3-year-old
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
Post by SkyEyes
human child. Furthermore, mammals, birds, and reptiles have the
same
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
Post by SkyEyes
brain structures (particularly mammals and birds) that humans have,
and that are known to play a part in the production of emotion.
It's
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
Post by SkyEyes
pretty silly to think that animals *don't* have emotions. And they
can, quite clearly, rationalize to a degree. If you think they can't,
you're not paying sufficient attention.
It's nothing but hubris to claim that humans are the only animals that
have emotions, and it stems from the same arguments that theists use
to claim that humans have "souls" and animals do not.
I said 'human like' emotions. Humans have a tendency to give
human
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
emotional qualities to non-human animals.
How is a human emotion different from an animal emotion? I know it
was fashionable to denigrate the fact that animals have emotions back
in the '50s and '60s, but we know better now.
No, you believe differently, but that's because of your blind religious
faith.
No one ever said animals don't experience any emotions. The emotions
they experience are the very primitive and basic ones: fear, affection,
happiness. They do not experience complex emotions like remorse, envy,
contempt, Schadenfreude, pride. All of those complex emotions require a
degree of self awareness that animals lack.
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
You can kick a dog every day and it will still 'love' you because
you feed it. It's not love, it's a food source and a conditioned
response.
Then it *doesn't* "love" you. And by the way? You can't do that.
The dog will eventually turn on you.
Depends on how hard you kick it.
I don't think you know fucky-doo about animals. You embrace some kind
of mystical bullshit about them, and that prevents you from acquiring
real knowledge.
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
There are some similarities of emotions with primates but it's
still not human. And since we are related to them it shouldn't a big
surprise.
An emotion is an emotion.
False.
Post by SkyEyes
Stop trying to elevate human emotions to a
rarified plane; that old saw won't wash anymore. Animals feel
emotions very similar to what humans feel. We are not unique.
Animals do not experience the complex emotions that humans do.
Your misanthropic beliefs are rooted in your bizarre religious views.
You must have never had a dog. They get excited when getting ready for a
walk. They get depressed when their favorite human goes to work. They get
excited when their favorite human comes home from work. My neighbor has a
German Shepard that suffers from anxiety.
Excitement isn't a complex emotion, neither is nervousness. Feeling
positive or negative in response to various stimuli are also basic
responses.
Amazing how many people, just like Fuckwit, try to read a far deeper
meaning into basic animal instincts than is really there. They *want*
to see something more.
Jeanne Douglas
2013-06-20 21:51:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dutch
Post by Jason
Post by George Plimpton
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
If you think animals have human like emotions and can rationalize
events, you are an idiot.
Neuroscientists and animal behaviorists currently say that the average
dog has the same degree of consciousness and sentience as a 3-year-old
human child. Furthermore, mammals, birds, and reptiles have the same
brain structures (particularly mammals and birds) that humans have,
and that are known to play a part in the production of emotion. It's
pretty silly to think that animals *don't* have emotions. And they
can, quite clearly, rationalize to a degree. If you think they can't,
you're not paying sufficient attention.
It's nothing but hubris to claim that humans are the only animals that
have emotions, and it stems from the same arguments that theists use
to claim that humans have "souls" and animals do not.
I said 'human like' emotions. Humans have a tendency to give human
emotional qualities to non-human animals.
How is a human emotion different from an animal emotion? I know it
was fashionable to denigrate the fact that animals have emotions back
in the '50s and '60s, but we know better now.
No, you believe differently, but that's because of your blind religious
faith.
No one ever said animals don't experience any emotions. The emotions
they experience are the very primitive and basic ones: fear, affection,
happiness. They do not experience complex emotions like remorse, envy,
contempt, Schadenfreude, pride. All of those complex emotions require a
degree of self awareness that animals lack.
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
You can kick a dog every day and it will still 'love' you because
you feed it. It's not love, it's a food source and a conditioned
response.
Then it *doesn't* "love" you. And by the way? You can't do that.
The dog will eventually turn on you.
Depends on how hard you kick it.
I don't think you know fucky-doo about animals. You embrace some kind
of mystical bullshit about them, and that prevents you from acquiring
real knowledge.
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
There are some similarities of emotions with primates but it's
still not human. And since we are related to them it shouldn't a big
surprise.
An emotion is an emotion.
False.
Post by SkyEyes
Stop trying to elevate human emotions to a
rarified plane; that old saw won't wash anymore. Animals feel
emotions very similar to what humans feel. We are not unique.
Animals do not experience the complex emotions that humans do.
Your misanthropic beliefs are rooted in your bizarre religious views.
You must have never had a dog. They get excited when getting ready for a
walk. They get depressed when their favorite human goes to work. They get
excited when their favorite human comes home from work. My neighbor has a
German Shepard that suffers from anxiety.
Excitement isn't a complex emotion, neither is nervousness. Feeling positive
or negative in response to various stimuli are also basic responses.
This week's "Though the Wormhole" is entitled "How Do Aliens Think".
They use earth creatures as examples of alien thinking, including ant
colonies (a super-organism) and the octopus. They also discuss emotions
and how research now shows that emotions are absolutely essential to
intelligence. Highly recommended, whether you can find one of the
re-runs or On Demand or sciencechannel.com or wherever.

I also recommend last weeks's episode: "Can We Survive the Death of the
Sun?", which moves from the sun to the universe, and includes some
wonderful sfnal ideas that they speculate about with the known facts.
--
JD

"Osama Bin Laden is dead and GM is alive."--VP Joseph Biden
d***@.
2013-06-20 22:21:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Plimpton
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
If you think animals have human like emotions and can rationalize
events, you are an idiot.
Neuroscientists and animal behaviorists currently say that the average
dog has the same degree of consciousness and sentience as a 3-year-old
human child. Furthermore, mammals, birds, and reptiles have the same
brain structures (particularly mammals and birds) that humans have,
and that are known to play a part in the production of emotion. It's
pretty silly to think that animals *don't* have emotions. And they
can, quite clearly, rationalize to a degree. If you think they can't,
you're not paying sufficient attention.
It's nothing but hubris to claim that humans are the only animals that
have emotions, and it stems from the same arguments that theists use
to claim that humans have "souls" and animals do not.
I said 'human like' emotions. Humans have a tendency to give human
emotional qualities to non-human animals.
How is a human emotion different from an animal emotion? I know it
was fashionable to denigrate the fact that animals have emotions back
in the '50s and '60s, but we know better now.
No, you believe differently, but that's because of your blind religious
faith.
No one ever said animals don't experience any emotions. The emotions
they experience are the very primitive and basic ones: fear, affection,
happiness. They do not experience complex emotions like remorse, envy,
contempt, Schadenfreude, pride. All of those complex emotions require a
degree of self awareness that animals lack.
For one thing you've never given any reason to believe animals have no self
awareness Goob. Your lame attempt at providing one only showed that animals
don't understand the concept of REFLECTION, NOT that they have no sense of self
awareness, Goo.
George Plimpton
2013-06-20 23:15:02 UTC
Permalink
On 6/20/2013 3:21 PM, Fuckwit David Harrison - *Goo* - stupid,
illiterate cracker and convicted felon, defeated entirely in 1999 and
Post by d***@.
Post by George Plimpton
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
If you think animals have human like emotions and can rationalize
events, you are an idiot.
Neuroscientists and animal behaviorists currently say that the average
dog has the same degree of consciousness and sentience as a 3-year-old
human child. Furthermore, mammals, birds, and reptiles have the same
brain structures (particularly mammals and birds) that humans have,
and that are known to play a part in the production of emotion. It's
pretty silly to think that animals *don't* have emotions. And they
can, quite clearly, rationalize to a degree. If you think they can't,
you're not paying sufficient attention.
It's nothing but hubris to claim that humans are the only animals that
have emotions, and it stems from the same arguments that theists use
to claim that humans have "souls" and animals do not.
I said 'human like' emotions. Humans have a tendency to give human
emotional qualities to non-human animals.
How is a human emotion different from an animal emotion? I know it
was fashionable to denigrate the fact that animals have emotions back
in the '50s and '60s, but we know better now.
No, you believe differently, but that's because of your blind religious
faith.
No one ever said animals don't experience any emotions. The emotions
they experience are the very primitive and basic ones: fear, affection,
happiness. They do not experience complex emotions like remorse, envy,
contempt, Schadenfreude, pride. All of those complex emotions require a
degree of self awareness that animals lack.
For one thing you've never given any reason to believe animals have no self
awareness
I and many others have, *Goo*.
d***@.
2013-06-20 22:18:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by SkyEyes
Post by SkyEyes
   If you think animals have human like emotions and can rationalize
events, you are an idiot.
Neuroscientists and animal behaviorists currently say that the average
dog has the same degree of consciousness and sentience as a 3-year-old
human child.  Furthermore, mammals, birds, and reptiles have the same
brain structures (particularly mammals and birds) that humans have,
and that are known to play a part in the production of emotion.  It's
pretty silly to think that animals *don't* have emotions.  And they
can, quite clearly, rationalize to a degree.  If you think they can't,
you're not paying sufficient attention.
It's nothing but hubris to claim that humans are the only animals that
have emotions, and it stems from the same arguments that theists use
to claim that humans have "souls" and animals do not.
   I said 'human like' emotions. Humans have a tendency to give human
emotional qualities to non-human animals.
How is a human emotion different from an animal emotion? I know it
was fashionable to denigrate the fact that animals have emotions back
in the '50s and '60s, but we know better now.
Goo still thinks of animals in an old and outdated way. Part of that may
well be because of the fact that Goo has never had any real experience around
animals except for a cat or something, and it's obvious that he didn't learn
anything from what little experience he has had.
Post by SkyEyes
   You can kick a dog every day and it will still 'love' you because
you feed it. It's not love, it's a food source and a conditioned
response.
Then it *doesn't* "love" you. And by the way? You can't do that.
The dog will eventually turn on you.
   Cats purr. Clearly an animal response to being content. Is the cat
'happy' in the human sense? No. It's instinctive animal behavior.
Actually, cats purr for a variety of reasons, only one of which is
contentment. Another reason cats purr is under stressful
circumstances, as a self-calming behavior. I've seen cats purr just
moments before dying, and believe me, it wasn't out of contentment.
   There are some similarities of emotions with primates but it's
still not human. And since we are related to them it shouldn't a big
surprise.
An emotion is an emotion. Stop trying to elevate human emotions to a
rarified plane; that old saw won't wash anymore. Animals feel
emotions very similar to what humans feel. We are not unique.
You have a very 20th century view of animal behavior.
As does Goo. Here is a groups of absurd seeming things Goo has had to say on
the topic:

"Animals do not have a sense of insult." - Goo

"No non-human animals experience the emotion of anticipation" - Goo

"Dogs NEVER anticipate, nor do cats, or cattle, or
any other animal you've ever encountered." - Goo

"Animals do not experience frustration." - Goo

"Animals cannot be or feel disappointed." - Goo

"Non human animals experience neither pride nor
disappointment. They don't have the mental ability
to feel either." - Goo

"Darwin, a sentimental person, was projecting. He
saw something that wasn't there. He was, in a way,
hallucinating." - Goo

"The dog didn't do what Darwin said. His statement of
the "changes in behavior" is not reliable." - Goo

"Anticipation requires language." - Goo

"No animals anticipate." - Goo

"Animals do not anticipate, Fuckwit. That requires language-dependent
thought." - Goo

"human-only anticipation" - Goo

"Dogs, cats, cattle, almost all animals "lower" than
the great apes have no sense of self." - Goo

"They are not aware that they can see. " - Goo

"They are *not* aware that they can smell." - Goo
George Plimpton
2013-06-20 05:48:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by SkyEyes
Post by k***@baawa.com
Post by d***@.
I feed mealworms to my finches a few times a week. When I begin the process
of sifting the worms out of the litter my female society finch comes down to the
area in anticipation. Sometimes the male joins her, meaning that he's also aware
of and anticipating what's about to happen even though he doesn't always come in
close. Sometimes I let the female come down and grab a worm, but sometimes not
because her wings blow the litter around making a bit of a mess. Whether I let
her or not though both birds definitely anticipate getting mealworms when they
see me begin the process.
It's anticipation by a conditioned signal. My cat always come when
he hears the can opener. It may be a can of beans or a can of cat
food.
If you think animals have human like emotions and can rationalize
events, you are an idiot.
Neuroscientists and animal behaviorists currently say that the average
dog has the same degree of consciousness and sentience as a 3-year-old
human child.
No, they don't.
d***@.
2013-06-20 22:13:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by k***@baawa.com
Post by d***@.
I feed mealworms to my finches a few times a week. When I begin the process
of sifting the worms out of the litter my female society finch comes down to the
area in anticipation. Sometimes the male joins her, meaning that he's also aware
of and anticipating what's about to happen even though he doesn't always come in
close. Sometimes I let the female come down and grab a worm, but sometimes not
because her wings blow the litter around making a bit of a mess. Whether I let
her or not though both birds definitely anticipate getting mealworms when they
see me begin the process.
It's anticipation by a conditioned signal. My cat always come when
he hears the can opener. It may be a can of beans or a can of cat
food.
My chickens began anticipating when they heard the can opener even in winter
with the doors and windows closed, but they only did it when I used the can
opener at the time of day when they were fed, not always.
Post by k***@baawa.com
If you think animals have human like emotions
You have no idea which of their emotions are similar, which are stronger and
which are weaker. In fact by your reply here it seems clear you're not even
capable of considering it.
Post by k***@baawa.com
and can rationalize
events, you are an idiot.
What do you want people to think the ability to experience emotions has to
do with the ability to rationalize events, do you have any idea?
George Plimpton
2013-06-20 23:14:50 UTC
Permalink
On 6/20/2013 3:13 PM, Fuckwit David Harrison - *Goo* - stupid,
illiterate cracker and convicted felon, defeated entirely in 1999 and
Post by d***@.
Post by k***@baawa.com
Post by d***@.
I feed mealworms to my finches a few times a week. When I begin the process
of sifting the worms out of the litter my female society finch comes down to the
area in anticipation. Sometimes the male joins her, meaning that he's also aware
of and anticipating what's about to happen even though he doesn't always come in
close. Sometimes I let the female come down and grab a worm, but sometimes not
because her wings blow the litter around making a bit of a mess. Whether I let
her or not though both birds definitely anticipate getting mealworms when they
see me begin the process.
It's anticipation by a conditioned signal. My cat always come when
he hears the can opener. It may be a can of beans or a can of cat
food.
My chickens began anticipating
They do not experience the emotion of anticipation, *Goo*. No non-human
animal does.

You know you're lying, *Goo*.
George Plimpton
2013-06-21 04:06:17 UTC
Permalink
"Anticipation is the process of imaginative speculation about the future."

Finches do not have the power of imaginative speculation.
Dreamer In Colore
2013-06-21 04:28:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Plimpton
"Anticipation is the process of imaginative speculation about the future."
Finches do not have the power of imaginative speculation.
That's only one definition of anticipation.

Ever seen a dog wait expectantly before you feed it? That's
anticipation you're seeing.

How about a cat, playing with a toy? Also anticipation.

All animals anticipate. It's a reflex action that helps them survive.

Please think more before you post things like this; you're not helping
your cause.

Cheers,
Dreamer
AA 2306
unknown
2013-06-22 04:59:55 UTC
Permalink
==========================================================

KEEP IT THE HELL OUT OF CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS, THANKS

==========================================================

On 6/20/2013 9:28 PM, Dreamer In Colore wrote:

Path: not-for-mail
From: Dreamer In Colore <***@hotmail.com>
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Homer Stille Cummings
2013-06-21 22:18:24 UTC
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On 6/21/2013 9:59 PM, Karen Gordon, the HIV-oozing whore of Nanaimo,
Post by unknown
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KEEP IT THE HELL OUT OF CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS, THANKS
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Shut your fucking yap, Karen, before I shut it for you.
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Homer Stille Cummings
2013-06-21 22:18:57 UTC
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On 6/21/2013 9:59 PM, Karen Gordon, the HIV-oozing whore of Nanaimo,
Post by unknown
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KEEP IT THE HELL OUT OF CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS, THANKS
==========================================================
Shut your fucking yap, Karen, before I shut it for you.
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unknown
2013-06-22 22:51:29 UTC
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KEEP IT THE HELL OUT OF CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS, THANKS

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On 6/21/2013 3:18 PM, Homer Stille Cummings wrote:


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Subject: Re: TROLL ------------------------------ Re: LACK OF
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Delvin Benet
2013-06-21 22:56:41 UTC
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On 6/22/2013 3:51 PM, Karen Gordon, HIV-oozing whore and goddamned
Post by unknown
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KEEP IT THE HELL OUT OF CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS, THANKS
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Fuck off, Karen
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unknown
2013-06-23 00:01:39 UTC
Permalink
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KEEP IT THE HELL OUT OF CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS, THANKS

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On 6/21/2013 3:56 PM, Delvin Benet wrote:

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Delvin Benet
2013-06-22 01:03:39 UTC
Permalink
On 6/22/2013 3:51 PM, Karen Gordon, HIV-oozing whore and goddamned
Post by unknown
==========================================================
KEEP IT THE HELL OUT OF CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS, THANKS
==========================================================
Fuck off, Karen
Post by unknown
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Subject: Re: TROLL ------------------------------ Re: LACK OF
anticipation
in finches
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George Plimpton
2013-06-21 13:50:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
"Anticipation is the process of imaginative speculation about the future."
Finches do not have the power of imaginative speculation.
That's only one definition of anticipation.
It is the *ONLY* relevant definition when we're talking about
anticipation as an emotion. That's the whole fucking point, you idiot.
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Ever seen a dog wait expectantly before you feed it? That's
anticipation you're seeing.
That's not an emotion.
Dreamer In Colore
2013-06-21 14:04:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
"Anticipation is the process of imaginative speculation about the future."
Finches do not have the power of imaginative speculation.
That's only one definition of anticipation.
It is the *ONLY* relevant definition when we're talking about
anticipation as an emotion. That's the whole fucking point, you idiot.
No, it isn't. You might want to restrict it down to whatever
convenient definition suits your narrow point of view.... but it's not
the only relevant definition.

You haven't done a good job of making your case... which kind of makes
you the idiot.
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Ever seen a dog wait expectantly before you feed it? That's
anticipation you're seeing.
That's not an emotion.
Sure it is. Emotions are neurophysical reactions to given situations.
Love, pain, hunger, fear.... animals experience all of those... and
guess what? Humans experience them exactly the same way because we're
animals too.
George Plimpton
2013-06-21 14:11:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
"Anticipation is the process of imaginative speculation about the future."
Finches do not have the power of imaginative speculation.
That's only one definition of anticipation.
It is the *ONLY* relevant definition when we're talking about
anticipation as an emotion. That's the whole fucking point, you idiot.
No, it isn't.
Yes, it is *THE* definition of the *emotion* of anticipation - something
only humans experience, and something that goes far beyond a mere
expectation - *always* in response to a signal - that something is about
to happen. When you dreamy idiots start blabbering about a dog
"anticipating" that it is about to be fed, you mean merely that it
*expects* to be fed because it sees its owner doing something that
signals meal time. The dog is not experiencing the emotion of
anticipation; this is pure signal-response. There is no imagination
involved.
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Ever seen a dog wait expectantly before you feed it? That's
anticipation you're seeing.
That's not an emotion.
Sure it is.
It most definitely is not.
Dreamer In Colore
2013-06-21 14:38:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
"Anticipation is the process of imaginative speculation about the future."
Finches do not have the power of imaginative speculation.
That's only one definition of anticipation.
It is the *ONLY* relevant definition when we're talking about
anticipation as an emotion. That's the whole fucking point, you idiot.
No, it isn't.
Yes, it is *THE* definition of the *emotion* of anticipation - something
only humans experience, and something that goes far beyond a mere
expectation - *always* in response to a signal - that something is about
to happen. When you dreamy idiots start blabbering about a dog
"anticipating" that it is about to be fed, you mean merely that it
*expects* to be fed because it sees its owner doing something that
signals meal time. The dog is not experiencing the emotion of
anticipation; this is pure signal-response. There is no imagination
involved.
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Ever seen a dog wait expectantly before you feed it? That's
anticipation you're seeing.
That's not an emotion.
Sure it is.
It most definitely is not.
Again, you haven't made a good case for your position.

Humans don't experience emotions in a vacuum. There's always a cause
for it, so the response is exactly that... a response. There's nothing
particularly special about a human emotional context, because we're
ANIMALS. Highly-evolved animals to be sure, but animals nonetheless.
Just because you articulate things better than a dog or cat does not
mean that the neurophysiology is fundamentally different.

Bringing imagination into the equation is just a conceit. It doesn't
magnify the emotion or alter it into something special just because
that's what you want it to represent.
George Plimpton
2013-06-21 14:57:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
"Anticipation is the process of imaginative speculation about the future."
Finches do not have the power of imaginative speculation.
That's only one definition of anticipation.
It is the *ONLY* relevant definition when we're talking about
anticipation as an emotion. That's the whole fucking point, you idiot.
No, it isn't.
Yes, it is *THE* definition of the *emotion* of anticipation - something
only humans experience, and something that goes far beyond a mere
expectation - *always* in response to a signal - that something is about
to happen. When you dreamy idiots start blabbering about a dog
"anticipating" that it is about to be fed, you mean merely that it
*expects* to be fed because it sees its owner doing something that
signals meal time. The dog is not experiencing the emotion of
anticipation; this is pure signal-response. There is no imagination
involved.
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Ever seen a dog wait expectantly before you feed it? That's
anticipation you're seeing.
That's not an emotion.
Sure it is.
It most definitely is not.
Again, you haven't made a good case for your position.
I've made a compelling case for it.
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Humans don't experience emotions in a vacuum.
I never said they did.
Post by Dreamer In Colore
There's always a cause
for it, so the response is exactly that... a response.
There isn't always an external signal for it.
Post by Dreamer In Colore
There's nothing particularly special about a human emotional context,
Yes, there is. There are numerous emotions - all the complex ones -
that *only* humans can experience. Here is one: pride in the
accomplishments of others, such as a parent might feel over his grown
child obtaining a Ph.D in mathematics. Ask Rupert about what his
parents told him when he did that.
Dreamer In Colore
2013-06-21 15:27:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
"Anticipation is the process of imaginative speculation about the future."
Finches do not have the power of imaginative speculation.
That's only one definition of anticipation.
It is the *ONLY* relevant definition when we're talking about
anticipation as an emotion. That's the whole fucking point, you idiot.
No, it isn't.
Yes, it is *THE* definition of the *emotion* of anticipation - something
only humans experience, and something that goes far beyond a mere
expectation - *always* in response to a signal - that something is about
to happen. When you dreamy idiots start blabbering about a dog
"anticipating" that it is about to be fed, you mean merely that it
*expects* to be fed because it sees its owner doing something that
signals meal time. The dog is not experiencing the emotion of
anticipation; this is pure signal-response. There is no imagination
involved.
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Ever seen a dog wait expectantly before you feed it? That's
anticipation you're seeing.
That's not an emotion.
Sure it is.
It most definitely is not.
Again, you haven't made a good case for your position.
I've made a compelling case for it.
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Humans don't experience emotions in a vacuum.
I never said they did.
Post by Dreamer In Colore
There's always a cause
for it, so the response is exactly that... a response.
There isn't always an external signal for it.
Post by Dreamer In Colore
There's nothing particularly special about a human emotional context,
Yes, there is. There are numerous emotions - all the complex ones -
that *only* humans can experience. Here is one: pride in the
accomplishments of others, such as a parent might feel over his grown
child obtaining a Ph.D in mathematics. Ask Rupert about what his
parents told him when he did that.
Seems to me that you want to have your cake and eat it too.

On the one hand, you say that finches lack anticipation, when you can
see them anticipate things right in my back yard. On the other hand,
you say that only humans experience what you call "complex ones'..

There's plenty of evidence that dolphins and whales experience
"complex emotions"... but this is a dumb argument because both of us
have agreed that human beings are more evolved.

You didn't stick to the original point...
George Plimpton
2013-06-21 15:37:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
"Anticipation is the process of imaginative speculation about the future."
Finches do not have the power of imaginative speculation.
That's only one definition of anticipation.
It is the *ONLY* relevant definition when we're talking about
anticipation as an emotion. That's the whole fucking point, you idiot.
No, it isn't.
Yes, it is *THE* definition of the *emotion* of anticipation - something
only humans experience, and something that goes far beyond a mere
expectation - *always* in response to a signal - that something is about
to happen. When you dreamy idiots start blabbering about a dog
"anticipating" that it is about to be fed, you mean merely that it
*expects* to be fed because it sees its owner doing something that
signals meal time. The dog is not experiencing the emotion of
anticipation; this is pure signal-response. There is no imagination
involved.
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Ever seen a dog wait expectantly before you feed it? That's
anticipation you're seeing.
That's not an emotion.
Sure it is.
It most definitely is not.
Again, you haven't made a good case for your position.
I've made a compelling case for it.
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Humans don't experience emotions in a vacuum.
I never said they did.
Post by Dreamer In Colore
There's always a cause
for it, so the response is exactly that... a response.
There isn't always an external signal for it.
Post by Dreamer In Colore
There's nothing particularly special about a human emotional context,
Yes, there is. There are numerous emotions - all the complex ones -
that *only* humans can experience. Here is one: pride in the
accomplishments of others, such as a parent might feel over his grown
child obtaining a Ph.D in mathematics. Ask Rupert about what his
parents told him when he did that.
Seems to me that you want to have your cake and eat it too.
Not in the least.
Post by Dreamer In Colore
On the one hand, you say that finches lack anticipation, when you can
see them anticipate things right in my back yard.
That's a different meaning of anticipation. It's a meaning that has no
emotional component. I have been very clear about this. If you don't
understand it, you have a comprehension problem.

One meaning of anticipation is mere expectation. If I stand in front of
you and I hold a ball up off the ground and drop it, you anticipate -
you expect - that it will fall to the ground. There is no emotion in
that. You are reacting immediately to a signal. If I ask you what you
want to eat and you say "a ham sandwich" and I then get the ingredients
out and start to make a ham sandwich, you anticipate - you expect - that
a ham sandwich is being prepared for you. That is a completely
different meaning of anticipation.
Post by Dreamer In Colore
On the other hand,
you say that only humans experience what you call "complex ones'..
There's plenty of evidence that dolphins and whales experience
"complex emotions"
No, there isn't. There is quite a lot of understanding about cetaceans'
cognitive ability - their raw intelligence - but very little about their
emotional capacity.
Dreamer In Colore
2013-06-21 16:18:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
"Anticipation is the process of imaginative speculation about the future."
Finches do not have the power of imaginative speculation.
That's only one definition of anticipation.
It is the *ONLY* relevant definition when we're talking about
anticipation as an emotion. That's the whole fucking point, you idiot.
No, it isn't.
Yes, it is *THE* definition of the *emotion* of anticipation - something
only humans experience, and something that goes far beyond a mere
expectation - *always* in response to a signal - that something is about
to happen. When you dreamy idiots start blabbering about a dog
"anticipating" that it is about to be fed, you mean merely that it
*expects* to be fed because it sees its owner doing something that
signals meal time. The dog is not experiencing the emotion of
anticipation; this is pure signal-response. There is no imagination
involved.
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Ever seen a dog wait expectantly before you feed it? That's
anticipation you're seeing.
That's not an emotion.
Sure it is.
It most definitely is not.
Again, you haven't made a good case for your position.
I've made a compelling case for it.
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Humans don't experience emotions in a vacuum.
I never said they did.
Post by Dreamer In Colore
There's always a cause
for it, so the response is exactly that... a response.
There isn't always an external signal for it.
Post by Dreamer In Colore
There's nothing particularly special about a human emotional context,
Yes, there is. There are numerous emotions - all the complex ones -
that *only* humans can experience. Here is one: pride in the
accomplishments of others, such as a parent might feel over his grown
child obtaining a Ph.D in mathematics. Ask Rupert about what his
parents told him when he did that.
Seems to me that you want to have your cake and eat it too.
Not in the least.
Post by Dreamer In Colore
On the one hand, you say that finches lack anticipation, when you can
see them anticipate things right in my back yard.
That's a different meaning of anticipation. It's a meaning that has no
emotional component. I have been very clear about this. If you don't
understand it, you have a comprehension problem.
One meaning of anticipation is mere expectation. If I stand in front of
you and I hold a ball up off the ground and drop it, you anticipate -
you expect - that it will fall to the ground. There is no emotion in
that. You are reacting immediately to a signal. If I ask you what you
want to eat and you say "a ham sandwich" and I then get the ingredients
out and start to make a ham sandwich, you anticipate - you expect - that
a ham sandwich is being prepared for you. That is a completely
different meaning of anticipation.
Post by Dreamer In Colore
On the other hand,
you say that only humans experience what you call "complex ones'..
There's plenty of evidence that dolphins and whales experience
"complex emotions"
No, there isn't. There is quite a lot of understanding about cetaceans'
cognitive ability - their raw intelligence - but very little about their
emotional capacity.
I went back and read the original thread. In that thread, the poster
made the observation that finches were experiencing an emotional
response to the act of mealworms about to appear.

You've spun slightly past that to indicate that humans are capable of
higher emotional responses, and I'm not arguing that, because humans
have more evolved nervous systems and higher-order thinking than
finches do.

You're arguing that humans are beyond animals, and I'm saying that
basic human emotions aren't any different than the ones experienced by
animals.

We ought to stop there, because I have no desire to argue about two
different things.


As for the cetacean emotional capacity:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/whales-in-love-like-humans-their-brains-are-wired-for-romance-427863.html

and a more generalized article:

http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/animals/stories/do-dolphins-mourn-their-dead


I am pretty sure we're in agreement on the basics... but not on some
of the details. Agree to disagree?

Cheers,
Dreamer
AA 2306
George Plimpton
2013-06-21 16:43:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
"Anticipation is the process of imaginative speculation about the future."
Finches do not have the power of imaginative speculation.
That's only one definition of anticipation.
It is the *ONLY* relevant definition when we're talking about
anticipation as an emotion. That's the whole fucking point, you idiot.
No, it isn't.
Yes, it is *THE* definition of the *emotion* of anticipation - something
only humans experience, and something that goes far beyond a mere
expectation - *always* in response to a signal - that something is about
to happen. When you dreamy idiots start blabbering about a dog
"anticipating" that it is about to be fed, you mean merely that it
*expects* to be fed because it sees its owner doing something that
signals meal time. The dog is not experiencing the emotion of
anticipation; this is pure signal-response. There is no imagination
involved.
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Ever seen a dog wait expectantly before you feed it? That's
anticipation you're seeing.
That's not an emotion.
Sure it is.
It most definitely is not.
Again, you haven't made a good case for your position.
I've made a compelling case for it.
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Humans don't experience emotions in a vacuum.
I never said they did.
Post by Dreamer In Colore
There's always a cause
for it, so the response is exactly that... a response.
There isn't always an external signal for it.
Post by Dreamer In Colore
There's nothing particularly special about a human emotional context,
Yes, there is. There are numerous emotions - all the complex ones -
that *only* humans can experience. Here is one: pride in the
accomplishments of others, such as a parent might feel over his grown
child obtaining a Ph.D in mathematics. Ask Rupert about what his
parents told him when he did that.
Seems to me that you want to have your cake and eat it too.
Not in the least.
Post by Dreamer In Colore
On the one hand, you say that finches lack anticipation, when you can
see them anticipate things right in my back yard.
That's a different meaning of anticipation. It's a meaning that has no
emotional component. I have been very clear about this. If you don't
understand it, you have a comprehension problem.
One meaning of anticipation is mere expectation. If I stand in front of
you and I hold a ball up off the ground and drop it, you anticipate -
you expect - that it will fall to the ground. There is no emotion in
that. You are reacting immediately to a signal. If I ask you what you
want to eat and you say "a ham sandwich" and I then get the ingredients
out and start to make a ham sandwich, you anticipate - you expect - that
a ham sandwich is being prepared for you. That is a completely
different meaning of anticipation.
Post by Dreamer In Colore
On the other hand,
you say that only humans experience what you call "complex ones'..
There's plenty of evidence that dolphins and whales experience
"complex emotions"
No, there isn't. There is quite a lot of understanding about cetaceans'
cognitive ability - their raw intelligence - but very little about their
emotional capacity.
I went back and read the original thread. In that thread, the poster
made the observation that finches were experiencing an emotional
response to the act of mealworms about to appear.
No, he wasn't saying that at all. What he was doing was deliberately
equivocating on the meaning of anticipation. He was giving an example
of an animal anticipating an event, immediately in response to a signal,
purely in the sense of expecting the event to happen - without any
emotional dimension to it at all.

You have far too little history and context of this travesty of a debate
to be able to appreciate how this thread started, and I don't have the
time to give a full history of it. The original poster, Fuckwit David
Harrison aka "The Goober" or "Goo", is an extremely dishonest,
uneducated and stupid person living near Atlanta, Georgia who has been
trying with 100% futility over the last 14 years to argue with "animal
rights activists" regarding their wish to see an end to livestock
husbandry. It is worth noting that I am *not* an "ara", and in fact I
have argued logically and factually against the "ar" proposition.
However, Fuckwit's basis for arguing against "ar" is a complete
nonsense. The essence of his worthless argument against "ar" is that if
"aras" were to succeed in getting people to stop eating meat, thereby
eliminating the demand for meat and thus the demand for livestock at
all, then "billions of future farm animals" would never exist and thus
never "get to experience life." Fuckwit wishes to pretend that the
"experiencing of life" by farm animals is a good thing in and of itself,
and that by wanting to prevent that, "aras" are committing some kind of
immoral act. Of course, Fuckwit cannot say *why* the animals' "getting
to experience life" is a good thing; he just asserts that it is.

Strangely, Fuckwit has some beliefs about animals and the emotions they
can experience that are *much* closer to the beliefs of "aras" than they
are to the beliefs of most who are opposed to "ar". This whole
discussion of what emotions animals are capable of experiencing is an
offshoot of his overall absurd and nonsensical belief about what's wrong
with "ar."
Post by Dreamer In Colore
You've spun slightly past that to indicate that humans are capable of
higher emotional responses, and I'm not arguing that, because humans
have more evolved nervous systems and higher-order thinking than
finches do.
You're arguing that humans are beyond animals, and I'm saying that
basic human emotions aren't any different than the ones experienced by
animals.
But we're not talking about the basic emotions, and we never were. We
are talking about the emotions, such as the emotion of anticipation,
that are precisely the ones that derive from that very higher-order
thinking you mentioned - the higher-order thinking that animals lack,
which is the reason they aren't capable of experiencing those more
complex emotions.
Dreamer In Colore
2013-06-21 16:55:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
"Anticipation is the process of imaginative speculation about the future."
Finches do not have the power of imaginative speculation.
That's only one definition of anticipation.
It is the *ONLY* relevant definition when we're talking about
anticipation as an emotion. That's the whole fucking point, you idiot.
No, it isn't.
Yes, it is *THE* definition of the *emotion* of anticipation - something
only humans experience, and something that goes far beyond a mere
expectation - *always* in response to a signal - that something is about
to happen. When you dreamy idiots start blabbering about a dog
"anticipating" that it is about to be fed, you mean merely that it
*expects* to be fed because it sees its owner doing something that
signals meal time. The dog is not experiencing the emotion of
anticipation; this is pure signal-response. There is no imagination
involved.
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Post by George Plimpton
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Ever seen a dog wait expectantly before you feed it? That's
anticipation you're seeing.
That's not an emotion.
Sure it is.
It most definitely is not.
Again, you haven't made a good case for your position.
I've made a compelling case for it.
Post by Dreamer In Colore
Humans don't experience emotions in a vacuum.
I never said they did.
Post by Dreamer In Colore
There's always a cause
for it, so the response is exactly that... a response.
There isn't always an external signal for it.
Post by Dreamer In Colore
There's nothing particularly special about a human emotional context,
Yes, there is. There are numerous emotions - all the complex ones -
that *only* humans can experience. Here is one: pride in the
accomplishments of others, such as a parent might feel over his grown
child obtaining a Ph.D in mathematics. Ask Rupert about what his
parents told him when he did that.
Seems to me that you want to have your cake and eat it too.
Not in the least.
Post by Dreamer In Colore
On the one hand, you say that finches lack anticipation, when you can
see them anticipate things right in my back yard.
That's a different meaning of anticipation. It's a meaning that has no
emotional component. I have been very clear about this. If you don't
understand it, you have a comprehension problem.
One meaning of anticipation is mere expectation. If I stand in front of
you and I hold a ball up off the ground and drop it, you anticipate -
you expect - that it will fall to the ground. There is no emotion in
that. You are reacting immediately to a signal. If I ask you what you
want to eat and you say "a ham sandwich" and I then get the ingredients
out and start to make a ham sandwich, you anticipate - you expect - that
a ham sandwich is being prepared for you. That is a completely
different meaning of anticipation.
Post by Dreamer In Colore
On the other hand,
you say that only humans experience what you call "complex ones'..
There's plenty of evidence that dolphins and whales experience
"complex emotions"
No, there isn't. There is quite a lot of understanding about cetaceans'
cognitive ability - their raw intelligence - but very little about their
emotional capacity.
I went back and read the original thread. In that thread, the poster
made the observation that finches were experiencing an emotional
response to the act of mealworms about to appear.
No, he wasn't saying that at all. What he was doing was deliberately
equivocating on the meaning of anticipation. He was giving an example
of an animal anticipating an event, immediately in response to a signal,
purely in the sense of expecting the event to happen - without any
emotional dimension to it at all.
You have far too little history and context of this travesty of a debate
to be able to appreciate how this thread started, and I don't have the
time to give a full history of it. The original poster, Fuckwit David
Harrison aka "The Goober" or "Goo", is an extremely dishonest,
uneducated and stupid person living near Atlanta, Georgia who has been
trying with 100% futility over the last 14 years to argue with "animal
rights activists" regarding their wish to see an end to livestock
husbandry. It is worth noting that I am *not* an "ara", and in fact I
have argued logically and factually against the "ar" proposition.
However, Fuckwit's basis for arguing against "ar" is a complete
nonsense. The essence of his worthless argument against "ar" is that if
"aras" were to succeed in getting people to stop eating meat, thereby
eliminating the demand for meat and thus the demand for livestock at
all, then "billions of future farm animals" would never exist and thus
never "get to experience life." Fuckwit wishes to pretend that the
"experiencing of life" by farm animals is a good thing in and of itself,
and that by wanting to prevent that, "aras" are committing some kind of
immoral act. Of course, Fuckwit cannot say *why* the animals' "getting
to experience life" is a good thing; he just asserts that it is.
Strangely, Fuckwit has some beliefs about animals and the emotions they
can experience that are *much* closer to the beliefs of "aras" than they
are to the beliefs of most who are opposed to "ar". This whole
discussion of what emotions animals are capable of experiencing is an
offshoot of his overall absurd and nonsensical belief about what's wrong
with "ar."
Post by Dreamer In Colore
You've spun slightly past that to indicate that humans are capable of
higher emotional responses, and I'm not arguing that, because humans
have more evolved nervous systems and higher-order thinking than
finches do.
You're arguing that humans are beyond animals, and I'm saying that
basic human emotions aren't any different than the ones experienced by
animals.
But we're not talking about the basic emotions, and we never were. We
are talking about the emotions, such as the emotion of anticipation,
that are precisely the ones that derive from that very higher-order
thinking you mentioned - the higher-order thinking that animals lack,
which is the reason they aren't capable of experiencing those more
complex emotions.
Thanks for the backstory, and the explanation. I apologize for
sticking my nose in without doing suitable research... my only
reasonable excuse is that it's way too easy to post when things get
heated.

Cheers,
Dreamer
AA 2306
unknown
2013-06-22 22:48:35 UTC
Permalink
==========================================================

KEEP IT THE HELL OUT OF CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS, THANKS

==========================================================

On 6/21/2013 9:55 AM, Dreamer In Colore wrote:

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Subject: Re: LACK OF anticipation in finches
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Delvin Benet
2013-06-21 22:56:39 UTC
Permalink
On 6/22/2013 3:48 PM, Karen Gordon, HIV-oozing whore and goddamned
Post by unknown
==========================================================
KEEP IT THE HELL OUT OF CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS, THANKS
==========================================================
Fuck off, Karen
Post by unknown
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Subject: Re: LACK OF anticipation in finches
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unknown
2013-06-22 23:59:50 UTC
Permalink
==========================================================

KEEP IT THE HELL OUT OF CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS, THANKS

==========================================================

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Mohammad Al Kallal <***@yahoo.com>
Monkey Clumps <***@yahoo.com>
Mort Davis <***@yahoo.com>
mrbawana2u <***@gmail.com>
mrbawana2u <***@yahoo.com>
No_He_Can_Not <***@mail.com>
Noddin Dog <Then-Destroy-***@Talk-n-dog.com>
None4U <***@jam.rr.com>
None4U <***@nospam.none>
Oath Keeper <***@gmail.com>
Old Bald John Howard <***@GWLIE.org>
OneBigAssMistakeAmerica
Oxley <***@yahoo.com>
pajamasmedia <***@gmail.com>
Palin <***@GWLIE.org>
Patriot <***@GWLIE.org>
Patriot Games <***@nambla.org>
Peter Muehlbauer <***@jam.rr.com>
Phil <***@gmail.com>
Pontius Pilate <***@GWLIE.org>
President O Debacle <***@yahoo.com>
Preston Mulligan <***@yahoo.com>
pyjamarama <***@yahoo.com>
pyotr filipivich <***@ph...@mindspring.comyahoo.com>
pyotr filipivich <***@yahoo.com>
Rastus <***@yahoo.com>
Realist <***@nowhere.com>
ReichTurd <***@gmail.com>
Remailer <***@rogers.com>
Rich <***@gmail.com>
Rich <***@gmail.com>
RichA <***@gmail.com>
Richard Hanson <***@GaryRosellesAsshole.com>
Right Wing Scum Are Vermin <***@gmail.com>
RIGHTIST FAGGOTS ARE SUBHUMAN VERMIN <***@gmail.com>
Rightists are vermin pedophiles who rape children
Ross John <***@yahoo.com>
Sage2 <***@gmail.com>
SaPeIsMa <***@HotMail.com>
SaPeIsMa <***@HotMail.com>
"Seneca" <***@outlook.com>
Sir John Howard AC WSCMoF <***@yahoo.com>
Straightarrow <***@yahoo.com>
Super Realist <***@GWLIE.org>
The Real Truth <***@GWLIE.org>
The Reverend Jesus Christ Our Lord <***@GWLIE.org>
The Zionist <***@yahoo.com>
Topaz <***@hitler.org>
Trace <***@yahoo.ca>
Tracey12 <***@gmail.com>
Travis <***@live.ca>
tunderbar <***@GWLIE.org>
tv <***@gmail.com>
vict0r <***@gmail.com>
Violent Chicago Obamathug <***@WhiteHouse.gov>
western auto <western-***@GWLIE.org>
Western Voice <***@gmail.com>
White Western Voice <***@gmail.com>
Winston_Smith <***@bogus.net>
___________________________________________________________
Delvin Benet
2013-06-22 01:03:43 UTC
Permalink
On 6/22/2013 3:48 PM, Karen Gordon, HIV-oozing whore and goddamned
Post by unknown
==========================================================
KEEP IT THE HELL OUT OF CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS, THANKS
==========================================================
Fuck off, Karen
Post by unknown
Path: not-for-mail
alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.philosophy,sci.skeptic,alt.atheism,alt.education,can.politics
Subject: Re: LACK OF anticipation in finches
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unknown
2013-06-22 22:49:34 UTC
Permalink
==========================================================

KEEP IT THE HELL OUT OF CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS, THANKS

==========================================================

On 6/21/2013 9:18 AM, Dreamer In Colore wrote:

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From: Dreamer In Colore <***@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups:
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Subject: Re: LACK OF anticipation in finches
Reply-To: ***@hotmail.com
Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>
References: <***@4ax.com>
<88ab8$51c3d43a$414e828e$***@EVERESTKC.NET>
<***@4ax.com>
<5bc57$51c45d31$414e828e$***@EVERESTKC.NET>
<***@4ax.com>
<d733d$51c45dee$414e828e$***@EVERESTKC.NET>
<***@4ax.com>
<6d35d$51c468ba$414e828e$***@EVERESTKC.NET>
<***@4ax.com>
<90313$51c47661$414e828e$***@EVERESTKC.NET>
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Delvin Benet
2013-06-21 22:56:39 UTC
Permalink
On 6/22/2013 3:49 PM, Karen Gordon, HIV-oozing whore and goddamned
Post by unknown
==========================================================
KEEP IT THE HELL OUT OF CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS, THANKS
==========================================================
Fuck off, Karen
Post by unknown
Path: not-for-mail
alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.philosophy,sci.skeptic,alt.atheism,alt.education,can.politics
Subject: Re: LACK OF anticipation in finches
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unknown
2013-06-23 00:00:22 UTC
Permalink
==========================================================

KEEP IT THE HELL OUT OF CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS, THANKS

==========================================================

On 6/21/2013 3:56 PM, Delvin Benet wrote:
"$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto"
"$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto" <***@gmail.com>
1-20-2013" <***@obamas-lastday.com>
"15.1 Million Unemployed in Bummah's Economy"
"AGW = BS" <***@nowhere.com>>
"Anonymous Infidel - the anti-political talking head"
"Bob Milby Jr." <***@yahoo.com>
"BOZO - Your Aussie Mate" <***@excite.com>
Delvin Benet <***@nbc.nýt>
"Dr. No" <***@gmail.com>
"Emmanuael Ben-Stein" <***@zionist.org>
"End Rightist Lies And Propaganda NOW!" <***@gmail.com>
"Ernst P. Muehlbauer" <***@yahoo.com>
"G. A." <***@yahoo.com>
"Geo. Pomeroy" <***@excite.com>
"Geo. Rush" <***@excite.com>
George Plimpton <***@si.not>
"***@Rover.com" <***@Rover.com>
"Jnrgen Schr�der" <***@yahoo.com>
"***@gmail.com" <***@gmail.com>
"***@primus.ca" <***@primus.ca>
"Leroy N. Soetoro" <***@usurper.org>
"Mr.B1ack" <***@barrk.net>
"Obummah's Katrina: TheGulf Oil disaster"
"Pay Up For Israel - America" <***@yahoo.org>
"***@primus.ca" <***@primus.ca>
"Robert Milby Jr." <***@GWLIE.org>
"Survivor - Eye Of The Tiger" <***@gmail.com>
"The S. Cole Militia" <***@yahoo.org>
"The_Slapdown" <***@yahoo.com>
"Throw The Bummah Out in '12" <***@Whitehouse.org>
"ZO, N,,OB" <***@GWLIE.org>
<***@gmail.com>
<***@Whitehouse.org>
<***@welfarecanada.com>
<Get Lost ***@gmail.com>>
<***@suckwiebe.cock>
<***@GWLIE.org>
<***@yahoo.com>
<***@LyingLeftistsare.invalid>
<***@yahoo.com>
<***@Whitehouse.org>
<***@gmail.com>
Ali Muhammad El Sharif <***@gmail.com>
AM <***@comcast.net>
American <***@GWLIE.org>
American <***@Whitehouse.org>
Amhearst <***@yahoo.com>
Amhearst <***@yahoo.com>
apn123547 <***@gmail.com>
apn123547 <***@live.ca>
Back At Ya Jack <***@nobody.org>
Beam Me Up Scotty <Then-Destroy-***@Talk-n-dog.com>
Beam Me Up Scotty <Then-Destroy-***@Talk-n-dog.com>
birdog <***@gmail.com>
BMarino <***@gmail.com>
Bob Culp <***@gmail.com>
Bollocks <***@GWLIE.org>
born again reactionary <***@gmail.com>
Bush <***@GWLIE.org>
Buzz <***@NAMBLA.invalid>
Catoni <***@GWLIE.org>
CB <***@PrayForMe.com>
Charly Barta <***@GWLIE.org>
Chet <***@yahoo.com>
Christopher <***@yahoo.com>
Chuck <***@yahoo.com>
Chuck <***@yahoo.com>
Cilmate Change Bollocks <***@GWLIE.org>
clay <***@gmail.com>
clay <***@yahoo.ca>
Clay <***@live.ca>
Climate Change Bollocks <***@GWLIE.org>
Corruption Scandals <***@GWLIE.org>
Crap Detector <***@rogers.com>
Crescentius Vespasianus <***@hotmail.com>
D. Stussy <spam+***@bde-arc.ampr.org>
David Bradley <***@Mexico.mx>
Derek Jones <***@gmail.com>
Does Welfare Leech Hansel Still Suck Ken Wiebe?
Doug <***@gmail.com>
dr yacub <***@gmail.com>
duke <***@cox.net>
E Gisin <***@GWLIE.org>
E. Gisin <Then-Destroy-***@Talk-n-dog.com>
Eddie Haskell <***@eeaeae.com>
Father Haskell <***@yahoo.com>
Editor RadioTalkingPoints
Erasmus <***@yahoo.com>
Eric Gisin <***@rogers.com>
Eric Gisin <***@yahoo.com>
Escape_the_Cult_Now <***@invalid.invalid>
Expert <***@yahoo.com>
Ezra Stein <***@yahoo.com>
First Post <***@LyingLeftistsare.invalid>
First Post <***@LyingLeftistsare.invalid>
Fred <***@gmail.com>
Fred Oinkman <***@sbcglobal.net>
Fuk Obama <***@GWLIE.org>
Gary Singh <***@jam.rr.com>
Gearld Newton <***@GWLIE.org>
Genesis <***@utopia.org>
Get Lost <***@gmail.com>
Get lost <***@gmail.com>
God Is Angry At Obama <***@GWLIE.org>
GOP = Grand Old Pedophiles <***@welfarecanada.com>
GOP = GRAND OLD PEDOPHILES <***@LyingLeftistsare.invalid>
gram <***@nomail.com>
Gray Ghost <grey_ghost471-***@yahoo.com>
Gunner Asch <***@jam.rr.com>
GW Bollocks <***@GW.k00k>
Hansel Soricalist <***@socialist.com>
Hansel Soricalist <***@socialist.com>
Harold Burton <***@hotmail.com>
Insane Kanuk Welfare Case Eric Gisin
***@Rover.com
James <***@socialist.jesus.com>>
Jerry Jim Wilfors <***@yahoo.com>
Jethro B. <***@jam.rr.com>
JFK <***@nowhere.com>
Jim Austin <***@dickmorris.com>
Joe Bruno <***@88hitler.org>
John Jones <***@GWLIE.org>
KAOS <***@gmail.com>
Kickin Names Takes It In The Ass
Lance <***@GWLIE.org>
Last Post <***@LyingLeftistsare.invalid>
Last Post <***@LyingLeftistsare.invalid>
Leonard <***@GWLIE.org>
leonard <***@primus.net>
Leroy N. Soetoro <***@usurper.org>
Liberals are vermin <***@gmail.com>
Libertarian Realist <***@gmail.com>
Loonard78p <***@gmail.com>
MARK HANSEL <***@jam.rr.com>
Maximus <***@gmail.com>
Mellakon <***@yahoo.com>
Mike Flannigan <***@ja22m.rr.com>
Mike Flannigan <***@jam.rr.com>
Mohammad Al Kallal <***@yahoo.com>
Monkey Clumps <***@yahoo.com>
Mort Davis <***@yahoo.com>
mrbawana2u <***@gmail.com>
mrbawana2u <***@yahoo.com>
No_He_Can_Not <***@mail.com>
Noddin Dog <Then-Destroy-***@Talk-n-dog.com>
None4U <***@jam.rr.com>
None4U <***@nospam.none>
Oath Keeper <***@gmail.com>
Old Bald John Howard <***@GWLIE.org>
OneBigAssMistakeAmerica
Oxley <***@yahoo.com>
pajamasmedia <***@gmail.com>
Palin <***@GWLIE.org>
Patriot <***@GWLIE.org>
Patriot Games <***@nambla.org>
Peter Muehlbauer <***@jam.rr.com>
Phil <***@gmail.com>
Pontius Pilate <***@GWLIE.org>
President O Debacle <***@yahoo.com>
Preston Mulligan <***@yahoo.com>
pyjamarama <***@yahoo.com>
pyotr filipivich <***@ph...@mindspring.comyahoo.com>
pyotr filipivich <***@yahoo.com>
Rastus <***@yahoo.com>
Realist <***@nowhere.com>
ReichTurd <***@gmail.com>
Remailer <***@rogers.com>
Rich <***@gmail.com>
Rich <***@gmail.com>
RichA <***@gmail.com>
Richard Hanson <***@GaryRosellesAsshole.com>
Right Wing Scum Are Vermin <***@gmail.com>
RIGHTIST FAGGOTS ARE SUBHUMAN VERMIN <***@gmail.com>
Rightists are vermin pedophiles who rape children
Ross John <***@yahoo.com>
Sage2 <***@gmail.com>
SaPeIsMa <***@HotMail.com>
SaPeIsMa <***@HotMail.com>
"Seneca" <***@outlook.com>
Sir John Howard AC WSCMoF <***@yahoo.com>
Straightarrow <***@yahoo.com>
Super Realist <***@GWLIE.org>
The Real Truth <***@GWLIE.org>
The Reverend Jesus Christ Our Lord <***@GWLIE.org>
The Zionist <***@yahoo.com>
Topaz <***@hitler.org>
Trace <***@yahoo.ca>
Tracey12 <***@gmail.com>
Travis <***@live.ca>
tunderbar <***@GWLIE.org>
tv <***@gmail.com>
vict0r <***@gmail.com>
Violent Chicago Obamathug <***@WhiteHouse.gov>
western auto <western-***@GWLIE.org>
Western Voice <***@gmail.com>
White Western Voice <***@gmail.com>
Winston_Smith <***@bogus.net>
___________________________________________________________
Delvin Benet
2013-06-22 01:03:42 UTC
Permalink
On 6/22/2013 3:49 PM, Karen Gordon, HIV-oozing whore and goddamned
Post by unknown
==========================================================
KEEP IT THE HELL OUT OF CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS, THANKS
==========================================================
Fuck off, Karen
Post by unknown
Path: not-for-mail
alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.philosophy,sci.skeptic,alt.atheism,alt.education,can.politics
Subject: Re: LACK OF anticipation in finches
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unknown
2013-06-22 22:50:18 UTC
Permalink
==========================================================

KEEP IT THE HELL OUT OF CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS, THANKS

==========================================================

On 6/21/2013 8:27 AM, Dreamer In Colore wrote:


Path: not-for-mail
From: Dreamer In Colore <***@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups:
alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.philosophy,sci.skeptic,alt.atheism,alt.education,can.politics
Subject: Re: LACK OF anticipation in finches
Reply-To: ***@hotmail.com
Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>
References: <***@4ax.com>
<88ab8$51c3d43a$414e828e$***@EVERESTKC.NET>
<***@4ax.com>
<5bc57$51c45d31$414e828e$***@EVERESTKC.NET>
<***@4ax.com>
<d733d$51c45dee$414e828e$***@EVERESTKC.NET>
<***@4ax.com>
<6d35d$51c468ba$414e828e$***@EVERESTKC.NET>
<***@4ax.com>
<90313$51c47661$414e828e$***@EVERESTKC.NET>
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Xref: Hurricane alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian:178621
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alt.education:230182 can.politics:1471291
Delvin Benet
2013-06-21 22:56:40 UTC
Permalink
On 6/22/2013 3:50 PM, Karen Gordon, HIV-oozing whore and goddamned
Post by unknown
==========================================================
KEEP IT THE HELL OUT OF CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS, THANKS
==========================================================
Fuck off, Karen
Post by unknown
Path: not-for-mail
alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.philosophy,sci.skeptic,alt.atheism,alt.education,can.politics
Subject: Re: LACK OF anticipation in finches
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unknown
2013-06-23 00:00:57 UTC
Permalink
==========================================================

KEEP IT THE HELL OUT OF CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS, THANKS

==========================================================

On 6/21/2013 3:56 PM, Delvin Benet wrote:

"$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto"
"$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto" <***@gmail.com>
1-20-2013" <***@obamas-lastday.com>
"15.1 Million Unemployed in Bummah's Economy"
"AGW = BS" <***@nowhere.com>>
"Anonymous Infidel - the anti-political talking head"
"Bob Milby Jr." <***@yahoo.com>
"BOZO - Your Aussie Mate" <***@excite.com>
Delvin Benet <***@nbc.nýt>
"Dr. No" <***@gmail.com>
"Emmanuael Ben-Stein" <***@zionist.org>
"End Rightist Lies And Propaganda NOW!" <***@gmail.com>
"Ernst P. Muehlbauer" <***@yahoo.com>
"G. A." <***@yahoo.com>
"Geo. Pomeroy" <***@excite.com>
"Geo. Rush" <***@excite.com>
George Plimpton <***@si.not>
"***@Rover.com" <***@Rover.com>
"Jnrgen Schr�der" <***@yahoo.com>
"***@gmail.com" <***@gmail.com>
"***@primus.ca" <***@primus.ca>
"Leroy N. Soetoro" <***@usurper.org>
"Mr.B1ack" <***@barrk.net>
"Obummah's Katrina: TheGulf Oil disaster"
"Pay Up For Israel - America" <***@yahoo.org>
"***@primus.ca" <***@primus.ca>
"Robert Milby Jr." <***@GWLIE.org>
"Survivor - Eye Of The Tiger" <***@gmail.com>
"The S. Cole Militia" <***@yahoo.org>
"The_Slapdown" <***@yahoo.com>
"Throw The Bummah Out in '12" <***@Whitehouse.org>
"ZO, N,,OB" <***@GWLIE.org>
<***@gmail.com>
<***@Whitehouse.org>
<***@welfarecanada.com>
<Get Lost ***@gmail.com>>
<***@suckwiebe.cock>
<***@GWLIE.org>
<***@yahoo.com>
<***@LyingLeftistsare.invalid>
<***@yahoo.com>
<***@Whitehouse.org>
<***@gmail.com>
Ali Muhammad El Sharif <***@gmail.com>
AM <***@comcast.net>
American <***@GWLIE.org>
American <***@Whitehouse.org>
Amhearst <***@yahoo.com>
Amhearst <***@yahoo.com>
apn123547 <***@gmail.com>
apn123547 <***@live.ca>
Back At Ya Jack <***@nobody.org>
Beam Me Up Scotty <Then-Destroy-***@Talk-n-dog.com>
Beam Me Up Scotty <Then-Destroy-***@Talk-n-dog.com>
birdog <***@gmail.com>
BMarino <***@gmail.com>
Bob Culp <***@gmail.com>
Bollocks <***@GWLIE.org>
born again reactionary <***@gmail.com>
Bush <***@GWLIE.org>
Buzz <***@NAMBLA.invalid>
Catoni <***@GWLIE.org>
CB <***@PrayForMe.com>
Charly Barta <***@GWLIE.org>
Chet <***@yahoo.com>
Christopher <***@yahoo.com>
Chuck <***@yahoo.com>
Chuck <***@yahoo.com>
Cilmate Change Bollocks <***@GWLIE.org>
clay <***@gmail.com>
clay <***@yahoo.ca>
Clay <***@live.ca>
Climate Change Bollocks <***@GWLIE.org>
Corruption Scandals <***@GWLIE.org>
Crap Detector <***@rogers.com>
Crescentius Vespasianus <***@hotmail.com>
D. Stussy <spam+***@bde-arc.ampr.org>
David Bradley <***@Mexico.mx>
Derek Jones <***@gmail.com>
Does Welfare Leech Hansel Still Suck Ken Wiebe?
Doug <***@gmail.com>
dr yacub <***@gmail.com>
duke <***@cox.net>
E Gisin <***@GWLIE.org>
E. Gisin <Then-Destroy-***@Talk-n-dog.com>
Eddie Haskell <***@eeaeae.com>
Father Haskell <***@yahoo.com>
Editor RadioTalkingPoints
Erasmus <***@yahoo.com>
Eric Gisin <***@rogers.com>
Eric Gisin <***@yahoo.com>
Escape_the_Cult_Now <***@invalid.invalid>
Expert <***@yahoo.com>
Ezra Stein <***@yahoo.com>
First Post <***@LyingLeftistsare.invalid>
First Post <***@LyingLeftistsare.invalid>
Fred <***@gmail.com>
Fred Oinkman <***@sbcglobal.net>
Fuk Obama <***@GWLIE.org>
Gary Singh <***@jam.rr.com>
Gearld Newton <***@GWLIE.org>
Genesis <***@utopia.org>
Get Lost <***@gmail.com>
Get lost <***@gmail.com>
God Is Angry At Obama <***@GWLIE.org>
GOP = Grand Old Pedophiles <***@welfarecanada.com>
GOP = GRAND OLD PEDOPHILES <***@LyingLeftistsare.invalid>
gram <***@nomail.com>
Gray Ghost <grey_ghost471-***@yahoo.com>
Gunner Asch <***@jam.rr.com>
GW Bollocks <***@GW.k00k>
Hansel Soricalist <***@socialist.com>
Hansel Soricalist <***@socialist.com>
Harold Burton <***@hotmail.com>
Insane Kanuk Welfare Case Eric Gisin
***@Rover.com
James <***@socialist.jesus.com>>
Jerry Jim Wilfors <***@yahoo.com>
Jethro B. <***@jam.rr.com>
JFK <***@nowhere.com>
Jim Austin <***@dickmorris.com>
Joe Bruno <***@88hitler.org>
John Jones <***@GWLIE.org>
KAOS <***@gmail.com>
Kickin Names Takes It In The Ass
Lance <***@GWLIE.org>
Last Post <***@LyingLeftistsare.invalid>
Last Post <***@LyingLeftistsare.invalid>
Leonard <***@GWLIE.org>
leonard <***@primus.net>
Leroy N. Soetoro <***@usurper.org>
Liberals are vermin <***@gmail.com>
Libertarian Realist <***@gmail.com>
Loonard78p <***@gmail.com>
MARK HANSEL <***@jam.rr.com>
Maximus <***@gmail.com>
Mellakon <***@yahoo.com>
Mike Flannigan <***@ja22m.rr.com>
Mike Flannigan <***@jam.rr.com>
Mohammad Al Kallal <***@yahoo.com>
Monkey Clumps <***@yahoo.com>
Mort Davis <***@yahoo.com>
mrbawana2u <***@gmail.com>
mrbawana2u <***@yahoo.com>
No_He_Can_Not <***@mail.com>
Noddin Dog <Then-Destroy-***@Talk-n-dog.com>
None4U <***@jam.rr.com>
None4U <***@nospam.none>
Oath Keeper <***@gmail.com>
Old Bald John Howard <***@GWLIE.org>
OneBigAssMistakeAmerica
Oxley <***@yahoo.com>
pajamasmedia <***@gmail.com>
Palin <***@GWLIE.org>
Patriot <***@GWLIE.org>
Patriot Games <***@nambla.org>
Peter Muehlbauer <***@jam.rr.com>
Phil <***@gmail.com>
Pontius Pilate <***@GWLIE.org>
President O Debacle <***@yahoo.com>
Preston Mulligan <***@yahoo.com>
pyjamarama <***@yahoo.com>
pyotr filipivich <***@ph...@mindspring.comyahoo.com>
pyotr filipivich <***@yahoo.com>
Rastus <***@yahoo.com>
Realist <***@nowhere.com>
ReichTurd <***@gmail.com>
Remailer <***@rogers.com>
Rich <***@gmail.com>
Rich <***@gmail.com>
RichA <***@gmail.com>
Richard Hanson <***@GaryRosellesAsshole.com>
Right Wing Scum Are Vermin <***@gmail.com>
RIGHTIST FAGGOTS ARE SUBHUMAN VERMIN <***@gmail.com>
Rightists are vermin pedophiles who rape children
Ross John <***@yahoo.com>
Sage2 <***@gmail.com>
SaPeIsMa <***@HotMail.com>
SaPeIsMa <***@HotMail.com>
"Seneca" <***@outlook.com>
Sir John Howard AC WSCMoF <***@yahoo.com>
Straightarrow <***@yahoo.com>
Super Realist <***@GWLIE.org>
The Real Truth <***@GWLIE.org>
The Reverend Jesus Christ Our Lord <***@GWLIE.org>
The Zionist <***@yahoo.com>
Topaz <***@hitler.org>
Trace <***@yahoo.ca>
Tracey12 <***@gmail.com>
Travis <***@live.ca>
tunderbar <***@GWLIE.org>
tv <***@gmail.com>
vict0r <***@gmail.com>
Violent Chicago Obamathug <***@WhiteHouse.gov>
western auto <western-***@GWLIE.org>
Western Voice <***@gmail.com>
White Western Voice <***@gmail.com>
Winston_Smith <***@bogus.net>
___________________________________________________________
Delvin Benet
2013-06-22 01:03:41 UTC
Permalink
On 6/22/2013 3:50 PM, Karen Gordon, HIV-oozing whore and goddamned
Post by unknown
==========================================================
KEEP IT THE HELL OUT OF CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS, THANKS
==========================================================
Fuck off, Karen
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unknown
2013-06-22 22:47:22 UTC
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On 6/21/2013 7:38 AM, Dreamer In Colore wrote:


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From: Dreamer In Colore <***@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: LACK OF anticipation in finches
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Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>
References: <***@4ax.com>
<88ab8$51c3d43a$414e828e$***@EVERESTKC.NET>
<***@4ax.com>
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Delvin Benet
2013-06-21 22:56:38 UTC
Permalink
On 6/22/2013 3:47 PM, Karen Gordon, HIV-oozing whore and goddamned
Post by unknown
==========================================================
KEEP IT THE HELL OUT OF CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS, THANKS
==========================================================
Fuck off, Karen
Post by unknown
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Subject: Re: LACK OF anticipation in finches
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unknown
2013-06-22 23:59:04 UTC
Permalink
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==========================================================

On 6/21/2013 3:56 PM, Delvin Benet wrote:


"$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto"
"$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto" <***@gmail.com>
1-20-2013" <***@obamas-lastday.com>
"15.1 Million Unemployed in Bummah's Economy"
"AGW = BS" <***@nowhere.com>>
"Anonymous Infidel - the anti-political talking head"
"Bob Milby Jr." <***@yahoo.com>
"BOZO - Your Aussie Mate" <***@excite.com>
Delvin Benet <***@nbc.nýt>
"Dr. No" <***@gmail.com>
"Emmanuael Ben-Stein" <***@zionist.org>
"End Rightist Lies And Propaganda NOW!" <***@gmail.com>
"Ernst P. Muehlbauer" <***@yahoo.com>
"G. A." <***@yahoo.com>
"Geo. Pomeroy" <***@excite.com>
"Geo. Rush" <***@excite.com>
George Plimpton <***@si.not>
"***@Rover.com" <***@Rover.com>
"Jnrgen Schr�der" <***@yahoo.com>
"***@gmail.com" <***@gmail.com>
"***@primus.ca" <***@primus.ca>
"Leroy N. Soetoro" <***@usurper.org>
"Mr.B1ack" <***@barrk.net>
"Obummah's Katrina: TheGulf Oil disaster"
"Pay Up For Israel - America" <***@yahoo.org>
"***@primus.ca" <***@primus.ca>
"Robert Milby Jr." <***@GWLIE.org>
"Survivor - Eye Of The Tiger" <***@gmail.com>
"The S. Cole Militia" <***@yahoo.org>
"The_Slapdown" <***@yahoo.com>
"Throw The Bummah Out in '12" <***@Whitehouse.org>
"ZO, N,,OB" <***@GWLIE.org>
<***@gmail.com>
<***@Whitehouse.org>
<***@welfarecanada.com>
<Get Lost ***@gmail.com>>
<***@suckwiebe.cock>
<***@GWLIE.org>
<***@yahoo.com>
<***@LyingLeftistsare.invalid>
<***@yahoo.com>
<***@Whitehouse.org>
<***@gmail.com>
Ali Muhammad El Sharif <***@gmail.com>
AM <***@comcast.net>
American <***@GWLIE.org>
American <***@Whitehouse.org>
Amhearst <***@yahoo.com>
Amhearst <***@yahoo.com>
apn123547 <***@gmail.com>
apn123547 <***@live.ca>
Back At Ya Jack <***@nobody.org>
Beam Me Up Scotty <Then-Destroy-***@Talk-n-dog.com>
Beam Me Up Scotty <Then-Destroy-***@Talk-n-dog.com>
birdog <***@gmail.com>
BMarino <***@gmail.com>
Bob Culp <***@gmail.com>
Bollocks <***@GWLIE.org>
born again reactionary <***@gmail.com>
Bush <***@GWLIE.org>
Buzz <***@NAMBLA.invalid>
Catoni <***@GWLIE.org>
CB <***@PrayForMe.com>
Charly Barta <***@GWLIE.org>
Chet <***@yahoo.com>
Christopher <***@yahoo.com>
Chuck <***@yahoo.com>
Chuck <***@yahoo.com>
Cilmate Change Bollocks <***@GWLIE.org>
clay <***@gmail.com>
clay <***@yahoo.ca>
Clay <***@live.ca>
Climate Change Bollocks <***@GWLIE.org>
Corruption Scandals <***@GWLIE.org>
Crap Detector <***@rogers.com>
Crescentius Vespasianus <***@hotmail.com>
D. Stussy <spam+***@bde-arc.ampr.org>
David Bradley <***@Mexico.mx>
Derek Jones <***@gmail.com>
Does Welfare Leech Hansel Still Suck Ken Wiebe?
Doug <***@gmail.com>
dr yacub <***@gmail.com>
duke <***@cox.net>
E Gisin <***@GWLIE.org>
E. Gisin <Then-Destroy-***@Talk-n-dog.com>
Eddie Haskell <***@eeaeae.com>
Father Haskell <***@yahoo.com>
Editor RadioTalkingPoints
Erasmus <***@yahoo.com>
Eric Gisin <***@rogers.com>
Eric Gisin <***@yahoo.com>
Escape_the_Cult_Now <***@invalid.invalid>
Expert <***@yahoo.com>
Ezra Stein <***@yahoo.com>
First Post <***@LyingLeftistsare.invalid>
First Post <***@LyingLeftistsare.invalid>
Fred <***@gmail.com>
Fred Oinkman <***@sbcglobal.net>
Fuk Obama <***@GWLIE.org>
Gary Singh <***@jam.rr.com>
Gearld Newton <***@GWLIE.org>
Genesis <***@utopia.org>
Get Lost <***@gmail.com>
Get lost <***@gmail.com>
God Is Angry At Obama <***@GWLIE.org>
GOP = Grand Old Pedophiles <***@welfarecanada.com>
GOP = GRAND OLD PEDOPHILES <***@LyingLeftistsare.invalid>
gram <***@nomail.com>
Gray Ghost <grey_ghost471-***@yahoo.com>
Gunner Asch <***@jam.rr.com>
GW Bollocks <***@GW.k00k>
Hansel Soricalist <***@socialist.com>
Hansel Soricalist <***@socialist.com>
Harold Burton <***@hotmail.com>
Insane Kanuk Welfare Case Eric Gisin
***@Rover.com
James <***@socialist.jesus.com>>
Jerry Jim Wilfors <***@yahoo.com>
Jethro B. <***@jam.rr.com>
JFK <***@nowhere.com>
Jim Austin <***@dickmorris.com>
Joe Bruno <***@88hitler.org>
John Jones <***@GWLIE.org>
KAOS <***@gmail.com>
Kickin Names Takes It In The Ass
Lance <***@GWLIE.org>
Last Post <***@LyingLeftistsare.invalid>
Last Post <***@LyingLeftistsare.invalid>
Leonard <***@GWLIE.org>
leonard <***@primus.net>
Leroy N. Soetoro <***@usurper.org>
Liberals are vermin <***@gmail.com>
Libertarian Realist <***@gmail.com>
Loonard78p <***@gmail.com>
MARK HANSEL <***@jam.rr.com>
Maximus <***@gmail.com>
Mellakon <***@yahoo.com>
Mike Flannigan <***@ja22m.rr.com>
Mike Flannigan <***@jam.rr.com>
Mohammad Al Kallal <***@yahoo.com>
Monkey Clumps <***@yahoo.com>
Mort Davis <***@yahoo.com>
mrbawana2u <***@gmail.com>
mrbawana2u <***@yahoo.com>
No_He_Can_Not <***@mail.com>
Noddin Dog <Then-Destroy-***@Talk-n-dog.com>
None4U <***@jam.rr.com>
None4U <***@nospam.none>
Oath Keeper <***@gmail.com>
Old Bald John Howard <***@GWLIE.org>
OneBigAssMistakeAmerica
Oxley <***@yahoo.com>
pajamasmedia <***@gmail.com>
Palin <***@GWLIE.org>
Patriot <***@GWLIE.org>
Patriot Games <***@nambla.org>
Peter Muehlbauer <***@jam.rr.com>
Phil <***@gmail.com>
Pontius Pilate <***@GWLIE.org>
President O Debacle <***@yahoo.com>
Preston Mulligan <***@yahoo.com>
pyjamarama <***@yahoo.com>
pyotr filipivich <***@ph...@mindspring.comyahoo.com>
pyotr filipivich <***@yahoo.com>
Rastus <***@yahoo.com>
Realist <***@nowhere.com>
ReichTurd <***@gmail.com>
Remailer <***@rogers.com>
Rich <***@gmail.com>
Rich <***@gmail.com>
RichA <***@gmail.com>
Richard Hanson <***@GaryRosellesAsshole.com>
Right Wing Scum Are Vermin <***@gmail.com>
RIGHTIST FAGGOTS ARE SUBHUMAN VERMIN <***@gmail.com>
Rightists are vermin pedophiles who rape children
Ross John <***@yahoo.com>
Sage2 <***@gmail.com>
SaPeIsMa <***@HotMail.com>
SaPeIsMa <***@HotMail.com>
"Seneca" <***@outlook.com>
Sir John Howard AC WSCMoF <***@yahoo.com>
Straightarrow <***@yahoo.com>
Super Realist <***@GWLIE.org>
The Real Truth <***@GWLIE.org>
The Reverend Jesus Christ Our Lord <***@GWLIE.org>
The Zionist <***@yahoo.com>
Topaz <***@hitler.org>
Trace <***@yahoo.ca>
Tracey12 <***@gmail.com>
Travis <***@live.ca>
tunderbar <***@GWLIE.org>
tv <***@gmail.com>
vict0r <***@gmail.com>
Violent Chicago Obamathug <***@WhiteHouse.gov>
western auto <western-***@GWLIE.org>
Western Voice <***@gmail.com>
White Western Voice <***@gmail.com>
Winston_Smith <***@bogus.net>
___________________________________________________________
Delvin Benet
2013-06-22 01:03:44 UTC
Permalink
On 6/22/2013 3:47 PM, Karen Gordon, HIV-oozing whore and goddamned
Post by unknown
==========================================================
KEEP IT THE HELL OUT OF CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS, THANKS
==========================================================
Fuck off, Karen
Post by unknown
Path: not-for-mail
alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.philosophy,sci.skeptic,alt.atheism,alt.education,can.politics
Subject: Re: LACK OF anticipation in finches
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unknown
2013-06-22 22:46:37 UTC
Permalink
==========================================================

KEEP IT THE HELL OUT OF CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS, THANKS

==========================================================
Post by George Plimpton
"Anticipation is the process of imaginative speculation
Delvin Benet
2013-06-21 22:56:38 UTC
Permalink
On 6/22/2013 3:46 PM, Karen Gordon, HIV-oozing whore and goddamned
Post by unknown
==========================================================
KEEP IT THE HELL OUT OF CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS, THANKS
==========================================================
Fuck off, Karen.
Post by unknown
Post by George Plimpton
"Anticipation is the process of imaginative speculation
unknown
2013-06-22 23:57:32 UTC
Permalink
==========================================================

KEEP IT THE HELL OUT OF CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS, THANKS

==========================================================

On 6/21/2013 3:56 PM, Delvin Benet wrote:


""$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto"
"$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto" <***@gmail.com>
1-20-2013" <***@obamas-lastday.com>
"15.1 Million Unemployed in Bummah's Economy"
"AGW = BS" <***@nowhere.com>>
"Anonymous Infidel - the anti-political talking head"
"Bob Milby Jr." <***@yahoo.com>
"BOZO - Your Aussie Mate" <***@excite.com>
Delvin Benet <***@nbc.nýt>
"Dr. No" <***@gmail.com>
"Emmanuael Ben-Stein" <***@zionist.org>
"End Rightist Lies And Propaganda NOW!" <***@gmail.com>
"Ernst P. Muehlbauer" <***@yahoo.com>
"G. A." <***@yahoo.com>
"Geo. Pomeroy" <***@excite.com>
"Geo. Rush" <***@excite.com>
George Plimpton <***@si.not>
"***@Rover.com" <***@Rover.com>
"Jnrgen Schr�der" <***@yahoo.com>
"***@gmail.com" <***@gmail.com>
"***@primus.ca" <***@primus.ca>
"Leroy N. Soetoro" <***@usurper.org>
"Mr.B1ack" <***@barrk.net>
"Obummah's Katrina: TheGulf Oil disaster"
"Pay Up For Israel - America" <***@yahoo.org>
"***@primus.ca" <***@primus.ca>
"Robert Milby Jr." <***@GWLIE.org>
"Survivor - Eye Of The Tiger" <***@gmail.com>
"The S. Cole Militia" <***@yahoo.org>
"The_Slapdown" <***@yahoo.com>
"Throw The Bummah Out in '12" <***@Whitehouse.org>
"ZO, N,,OB" <***@GWLIE.org>
<***@gmail.com>
<***@Whitehouse.org>
<***@welfarecanada.com>
<Get Lost ***@gmail.com>>
<***@suckwiebe.cock>
<***@GWLIE.org>
<***@yahoo.com>
<***@LyingLeftistsare.invalid>
<***@yahoo.com>
<***@Whitehouse.org>
<***@gmail.com>
Ali Muhammad El Sharif <***@gmail.com>
AM <***@comcast.net>
American <***@GWLIE.org>
American <***@Whitehouse.org>
Amhearst <***@yahoo.com>
Amhearst <***@yahoo.com>
apn123547 <***@gmail.com>
apn123547 <***@live.ca>
Back At Ya Jack <***@nobody.org>
Beam Me Up Scotty <Then-Destroy-***@Talk-n-dog.com>
Beam Me Up Scotty <Then-Destroy-***@Talk-n-dog.com>
birdog <***@gmail.com>
BMarino <***@gmail.com>
Bob Culp <***@gmail.com>
Bollocks <***@GWLIE.org>
born again reactionary <***@gmail.com>
Bush <***@GWLIE.org>
Buzz <***@NAMBLA.invalid>
Catoni <***@GWLIE.org>
CB <***@PrayForMe.com>
Charly Barta <***@GWLIE.org>
Chet <***@yahoo.com>
Christopher <***@yahoo.com>
Chuck <***@yahoo.com>
Chuck <***@yahoo.com>
Cilmate Change Bollocks <***@GWLIE.org>
clay <***@gmail.com>
clay <***@yahoo.ca>
Clay <***@live.ca>
Climate Change Bollocks <***@GWLIE.org>
Corruption Scandals <***@GWLIE.org>
Crap Detector <***@rogers.com>
Crescentius Vespasianus <***@hotmail.com>
D. Stussy <spam+***@bde-arc.ampr.org>
David Bradley <***@Mexico.mx>
Derek Jones <***@gmail.com>
Does Welfare Leech Hansel Still Suck Ken Wiebe?
Doug <***@gmail.com>
dr yacub <***@gmail.com>
duke <***@cox.net>
E Gisin <***@GWLIE.org>
E. Gisin <Then-Destroy-***@Talk-n-dog.com>
Eddie Haskell <***@eeaeae.com>
Father Haskell <***@yahoo.com>
Editor RadioTalkingPoints
Erasmus <***@yahoo.com>
Eric Gisin <***@rogers.com>
Eric Gisin <***@yahoo.com>
Escape_the_Cult_Now <***@invalid.invalid>
Expert <***@yahoo.com>
Ezra Stein <***@yahoo.com>
First Post <***@LyingLeftistsare.invalid>
First Post <***@LyingLeftistsare.invalid>
Fred <***@gmail.com>
Fred Oinkman <***@sbcglobal.net>
Fuk Obama <***@GWLIE.org>
Gary Singh <***@jam.rr.com>
Gearld Newton <***@GWLIE.org>
Genesis <***@utopia.org>
Get Lost <***@gmail.com>
Get lost <***@gmail.com>
God Is Angry At Obama <***@GWLIE.org>
GOP = Grand Old Pedophiles <***@welfarecanada.com>
GOP = GRAND OLD PEDOPHILES <***@LyingLeftistsare.invalid>
gram <***@nomail.com>
Gray Ghost <grey_ghost471-***@yahoo.com>
Gunner Asch <***@jam.rr.com>
GW Bollocks <***@GW.k00k>
Hansel Soricalist <***@socialist.com>
Hansel Soricalist <***@socialist.com>
Harold Burton <***@hotmail.com>
Insane Kanuk Welfare Case Eric Gisin
***@Rover.com
James <***@socialist.jesus.com>>
Jerry Jim Wilfors <***@yahoo.com>
Jethro B. <***@jam.rr.com>
JFK <***@nowhere.com>
Jim Austin <***@dickmorris.com>
Joe Bruno <***@88hitler.org>
John Jones <***@GWLIE.org>
KAOS <***@gmail.com>
Kickin Names Takes It In The Ass
Lance <***@GWLIE.org>
Last Post <***@LyingLeftistsare.invalid>
Last Post <***@LyingLeftistsare.invalid>
Leonard <***@GWLIE.org>
leonard <***@primus.net>
Leroy N. Soetoro <***@usurper.org>
Liberals are vermin <***@gmail.com>
Libertarian Realist <***@gmail.com>
Loonard78p <***@gmail.com>
MARK HANSEL <***@jam.rr.com>
Maximus <***@gmail.com>
Mellakon <***@yahoo.com>
Mike Flannigan <***@ja22m.rr.com>
Mike Flannigan <***@jam.rr.com>
Mohammad Al Kallal <***@yahoo.com>
Monkey Clumps <***@yahoo.com>
Mort Davis <***@yahoo.com>
mrbawana2u <***@gmail.com>
mrbawana2u <***@yahoo.com>
No_He_Can_Not <***@mail.com>
Noddin Dog <Then-Destroy-***@Talk-n-dog.com>
None4U <***@jam.rr.com>
None4U <***@nospam.none>
Oath Keeper <***@gmail.com>
Old Bald John Howard <***@GWLIE.org>
OneBigAssMistakeAmerica
Oxley <***@yahoo.com>
pajamasmedia <***@gmail.com>
Palin <***@GWLIE.org>
Patriot <***@GWLIE.org>
Patriot Games <***@nambla.org>
Peter Muehlbauer <***@jam.rr.com>
Phil <***@gmail.com>
Pontius Pilate <***@GWLIE.org>
President O Debacle <***@yahoo.com>
Preston Mulligan <***@yahoo.com>
pyjamarama <***@yahoo.com>
pyotr filipivich <***@ph...@mindspring.comyahoo.com>
pyotr filipivich <***@yahoo.com>
Rastus <***@yahoo.com>
Realist <***@nowhere.com>
ReichTurd <***@gmail.com>
Remailer <***@rogers.com>
Rich <***@gmail.com>
Rich <***@gmail.com>
RichA <***@gmail.com>
Richard Hanson <***@GaryRosellesAsshole.com>
Right Wing Scum Are Vermin <***@gmail.com>
RIGHTIST FAGGOTS ARE SUBHUMAN VERMIN <***@gmail.com>
Rightists are vermin pedophiles who rape children
Ross John <***@yahoo.com>
Sage2 <***@gmail.com>
SaPeIsMa <***@HotMail.com>
SaPeIsMa <***@HotMail.com>
"Seneca" <***@outlook.com>
Sir John Howard AC WSCMoF <***@yahoo.com>
Straightarrow <***@yahoo.com>
Super Realist <***@GWLIE.org>
The Real Truth <***@GWLIE.org>
The Reverend Jesus Christ Our Lord <***@GWLIE.org>
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Delvin Benet
2013-06-22 01:03:46 UTC
Permalink
On 6/22/2013 3:46 PM, Karen Gordon, HIV-oozing whore and goddamned
Post by unknown
==========================================================
KEEP IT THE HELL OUT OF CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS, THANKS
==========================================================
Fuck off, Karen.
Post by unknown
Post by George Plimpton
"Anticipation is the process of imaginative speculation
George Plimpton
2013-06-21 19:40:21 UTC
Permalink
"Anticipation [the emotion] is the process of imaginative speculation
about the future."

Finches do not have the power of imaginative speculation, and therefore
they do not experience the emotion of anticipation. Fuckwit was not
talking about the emotion of anticipation when he said his finches
"anticipate" being fed when Fuckwit starts fooling around with the meal
worms; what he was talking about was the simple conditioned response of
his finches expecting to be fed.

Contrary to Fuckwit's simple cracker-speak statement that "anticipation
is anticipation", we see instead that the word anticipation has multiple
meanings. One meaning is merely an expectation that something will
happen. That's the sense in which finches may "anticipate" being fed.
Another meaning is a "process of imaginative speculation about" the
event which is expected to happen. Finches do not engage in this
process. No non-human animal does.
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