Discussion:
jane goodall was stupid too ....just like liberals ...and you gotta read this...
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Mr. B1ack
2016-07-07 01:59:14 UTC
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On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 08:59:27 -0700 (PDT), john simmons
yeah the ol girl did her best to get the chimps and apes to talk
but decided to teach em how to read so she printed out sentences
in the sand and the chimp printed out ...by placing pebles at the
beginning and then scatching out what words she had printed...
but absent of any punctuation...so she was confused and started
putting pebbles at the beginng of her sentence and at the end ...
Well ..... spend enough time alone in the bush and you
too might get weird ideas ..................

Chimps ARE pretty smart, but they're not very verbal.
Just not wired that way. That was a mutation on our
side of the genetic tree.

Goodall wound up doing like a lot of animal researchers
do - she became so familar with her subjects that she
began to anthromorphize them, saw their behaviors
and motives and thinking as far more human than was
justified.

She also had some 60s ideological biases as well and
badly wanted to see the chimps as people who were
peaceniks, the furry hippies of the jungle. This colored
her perceptions. It took a long time before she admitted
that chimps are pretty damned violent, that they murder
and form gangs to snuff out their rivals (even eat them)
.... more 'Clockwork Orange' than 'Walden' alas. Seems
those traits appear on both sides of the genetic tree ...
human behavior being about 50/50 chimp/bonobo ...
ultraviolent AND ultrasexy.

On the plus side she DID take a lot of notes that will be
useful to generations of behaviorists and naturalists.
She wasn't a bad scientist, she just got a little too
immersed in her subjects.

Another amusing anthropologist was Margaret Mead.
She got SO interested in how the natives got it on.
Years later, those who followed in her footsteps talked
with some of the same natives ... and they laughingly
explained how they deliberately exaggerated what
they knew she wanted to hear about .... :-)
Governor Swill
2016-07-07 16:09:34 UTC
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Post by Mr. B1ack
On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 08:59:27 -0700 (PDT), john simmons
yeah the ol girl did her best to get the chimps and apes to talk
but decided to teach em how to read so she printed out sentences
in the sand and the chimp printed out ...by placing pebles at the
beginning and then scatching out what words she had printed...
but absent of any punctuation...so she was confused and started
putting pebbles at the beginng of her sentence and at the end ...
Well ..... spend enough time alone in the bush and you
too might get weird ideas ..................
Chimps ARE pretty smart, but they're not very verbal.
Just not wired that way. That was a mutation on our
side of the genetic tree.
It's not that apes aren't capable of language, it's that, aside from
humans, they lack physical capabilities that are needed for speech.
Some apes have been taught surprisingly complex levels of sign
language and even been observed making up their own vocabulary.
Post by Mr. B1ack
Goodall wound up doing like a lot of animal researchers
do - she became so familar with her subjects that she
began to anthromorphize them, saw their behaviors
and motives and thinking as far more human than was
justified.
Otoh, apes and other animals do have social and political organization
similar to those of humans. To assume that only humans have leaders
or social awareness is both incorrect and arrogant to the extreme.
Post by Mr. B1ack
She also had some 60s ideological biases as well and
badly wanted to see the chimps as people who were
peaceniks, the furry hippies of the jungle. This colored
her perceptions. It took a long time before she admitted
that chimps are pretty damned violent, that they murder
and form gangs to snuff out their rivals (even eat them)
While virtually everybody assumed chimps were cute and cuddly while
gorillas were violent and dangerous. It took some time for Goodall's
observations to be accepted by both science and the general public.
Post by Mr. B1ack
.... more 'Clockwork Orange' than 'Walden' alas. Seems
those traits appear on both sides of the genetic tree ...
human behavior being about 50/50 chimp/bonobo ...
ultraviolent AND ultrasexy.
Exactly. Chimps are very domineering and more than willing to make
war. Research on them has shown that humans are NOT the only species
that kills for reasons other than food. Benobo communities are a
veritable hippie commune of free love, cooperation and mutual pleasure
taking.
Post by Mr. B1ack
On the plus side she DID take a lot of notes that will be
useful to generations of behaviorists and naturalists.
She wasn't a bad scientist, she just got a little too
immersed in her subjects.
Passion and dedication.
Post by Mr. B1ack
Another amusing anthropologist was Margaret Mead.
She got SO interested in how the natives got it on.
Years later, those who followed in her footsteps talked
with some of the same natives ... and they laughingly
explained how they deliberately exaggerated what
they knew she wanted to hear about .... :-)
heh "And then he did WHAT to her?" *drool*

Swill
--
Donald J. Trump: The asteroid destined to destroy
a party of dinosaurs. - Samantha Bee

Trump Claim: Ambassador Chris Stevens "was left helpless to die
as Hillary Clinton soundly slept in her bed..."
Fact: The attack in Benghazi was at 3:45 pm, Eastern.
Hillary was wide awake when the call came in.
Trump is a liar.

Trump has written a lot of books about business, but they all
seem to end in Chapter 11. - Hillary Clinton

S. E. Cupp has characterized Trump as wearing the Republican party
like a rented tuxedo. When the prom is over, it's going to end up on
the floor with the liquor stains and cigarette butts.

So if you are thinking of voting for Donald Trump,
the charismatic guy promising to ‘Make America Great
Again,’ stop and take a moment to imagine how you
would feel if you just met a guy named Donald Drumpf:
a litigious, serial liar with a string of broken business
ventures and the support of a former Klan leader who
he can’t decide whether or not to condemn.
Would you think he would make a good president,
or is the spell now somewhat broken? - John Oliver
Mr. B1ack
2016-07-08 02:44:37 UTC
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On Thu, 07 Jul 2016 12:09:34 -0400, Governor Swill
Post by Governor Swill
Post by Mr. B1ack
On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 08:59:27 -0700 (PDT), john simmons
yeah the ol girl did her best to get the chimps and apes to talk
but decided to teach em how to read so she printed out sentences
in the sand and the chimp printed out ...by placing pebles at the
beginning and then scatching out what words she had printed...
but absent of any punctuation...so she was confused and started
putting pebbles at the beginng of her sentence and at the end ...
Well ..... spend enough time alone in the bush and you
too might get weird ideas ..................
Chimps ARE pretty smart, but they're not very verbal.
Just not wired that way. That was a mutation on our
side of the genetic tree.
It's not that apes aren't capable of language, it's that, aside from
humans, they lack physical capabilities that are needed for speech.
Some apes have been taught surprisingly complex levels of sign
language and even been observed making up their own vocabulary.
At about the level of a 2-year-old human ... don't be
overly impressed.

Read something interesting in Nature today ... seems
that your smarter birds - parrots and corvids and some
songbirds - have as many neurons in their pea-brains
as many monkeys do in brains ten times larger. They
really pack-in the processing power. As birds are direct
descendants of the dinosaurs, we now have to wonder
if the dinos were actually a lot smarter than we've long
assumed. Their "small" brains could have had a huge
amount of processing power.
Post by Governor Swill
Post by Mr. B1ack
Goodall wound up doing like a lot of animal researchers
do - she became so familar with her subjects that she
began to anthromorphize them, saw their behaviors
and motives and thinking as far more human than was
justified.
Otoh, apes and other animals do have social and political organization
similar to those of humans. To assume that only humans have leaders
or social awareness is both incorrect and arrogant to the extreme.
Chimps/orangs/gorillas are kinda "human-lite" ... a lot
of similarities, just at less complex levels.

But it's important to remember that they're NOT actually
humans.
Post by Governor Swill
Post by Mr. B1ack
She also had some 60s ideological biases as well and
badly wanted to see the chimps as people who were
peaceniks, the furry hippies of the jungle. This colored
her perceptions. It took a long time before she admitted
that chimps are pretty damned violent, that they murder
and form gangs to snuff out their rivals (even eat them)
While virtually everybody assumed chimps were cute and cuddly while
gorillas were violent and dangerous. It took some time for Goodall's
observations to be accepted by both science and the general public.
Goodall originally stuck to the "cute & cuddly" notion - and
I suspect it was because of cultural biases. She badly
wanted chimps to be "better than people" ... or at least
proof that people too could be cute & cuddly pretty much
all of the time if properly conditioned.

But further observation revealed a very different kind of
chimp, one with everything she didn't like about humanity.
In the end she did put aside her biases and hopes and
reported the awful truth. That redeemed her scientifically.
Post by Governor Swill
Post by Mr. B1ack
.... more 'Clockwork Orange' than 'Walden' alas. Seems
those traits appear on both sides of the genetic tree ...
human behavior being about 50/50 chimp/bonobo ...
ultraviolent AND ultrasexy.
Exactly. Chimps are very domineering and more than willing to make
war. Research on them has shown that humans are NOT the only species
that kills for reasons other than food. Benobo communities are a
veritable hippie commune of free love, cooperation and mutual pleasure
taking.
Bonobos do have a lot of sex ... and are far more mellow
than chimps (maybe they're too tired from all that sex to
wanna fight ?). They don't seem to be quite as intelligent
however - could be that a more competitive, dangerous,
socially-contentious enviroment biases mind and selective
pressures in ways that more strongly favor IQ. I've said
before that I think our lineage got so smart so quickly
because predictable 'nature' ceased being their main
obstacle and was replaced with fellow creatures, of
equal intelligence and depth, as the main contestants
to overcome.
Post by Governor Swill
Post by Mr. B1ack
On the plus side she DID take a lot of notes that will be
useful to generations of behaviorists and naturalists.
She wasn't a bad scientist, she just got a little too
immersed in her subjects.
Passion and dedication.
Post by Mr. B1ack
Another amusing anthropologist was Margaret Mead.
She got SO interested in how the natives got it on.
Years later, those who followed in her footsteps talked
with some of the same natives ... and they laughingly
explained how they deliberately exaggerated what
they knew she wanted to hear about .... :-)
heh "And then he did WHAT to her?" *drool*
I think Maggie assumed the natives were clueless.
Well, just because they didn't invent the light bulb
doesn't mean they are stupid or can't read some
college girl. They saw she was kind of obsessed
with sex stuff, so they had some fun with her.

However her other observations were detailed and
thus also of use to the future.

Anthropology (of humans or apes) is a very tricky
occupation because there's no actual "right" way
to look at things. Ethnocentrism can lead you far
astray and it's almost impossible to see such
biases in yourself.

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